Hey guys,
Edirol v-4 - I am wondering if you can help me figure something out. I need to switch between three cameras while keying lyrics over the video. The only problem is, when I have done this in the past, the tranistion is horrible, it doesn't just straight cut, the screen jumps. And you can't use the T-bar while the luma key is selected.

Has anyone else come across this? What did you do to fix it or get around it?

The event is tomorrow morning. So any quick help will really be appreciated.

That is just the result of the limitations of the unit itself. Unlike the more expensive and professional switchers that have a double-key source and an external reference, the V-4 is limited in that it will do the keying and the camera switching but not all at the same time.

ya, I was afraid of that.

But would this work fine with a second V-4 to switch the cameras and send this signal to the first V-4 where the lyrics are keyed? We already have one V-4 and considering how to accomplish this same thing. Seems less expensive than purchasing an entirely new and improved unit that would do it all.

Since these are fairly common units, could you borrow one from another church or department. . .? or rent to get through the event?

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teresa@WORDpictures visual media

Heck, he could just borrow/buy a $100 keyer.

...Yes...... but it'd double the amount of delay the V-4 introduces (you'd most likely be out by 3-4 frames - people would complain). Even with proper SONY vision switchers, we still end up keying with a CORIOGen or something like it. It's simpler that way, and you can always bypass the unit if the PC goes haywire.

If you end up getting a CORIOgen / TVOne Eclipse, you can download free PC software to control it here.

We're considering options to accomplish the same thing at a secondary site/service with 3 available GL1 and GL2's. Difference is existing V4 only has one open input through which to add cameras.

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teresa@WORDpictures visual media

Ya, don't think I will be investing in a standalone DSK anytime soon. So, really the only option would be to rent a second mixer.

What about Presentation mode? I have never used it but I know you can assign transitions to the input but what about keying?

If the 2nd site will require speakers, a few frames' delay isn't such an issue as long as you use a delay on the audio as well (to sync it up properly).

I didn't used to think it was such a big issue, then I saw the Newsboys live with an amateur video crew using prosumer gear. The delay was SO offputting (they were, to the best of our knowledge, using a slaved mixer arrangement like you're suggesting).

I want to fork this but I don't have a fork button. Anyone got a spoon?

I know this might be an even less affordable solution, but if you could get all the incoming video genlocked, there wouldn't be the annoying jump. The problem is you'll need a sync pulse generator as well as frame stabilizers for any camera not supporting genlock...

The reason for the jump is because the camera signals are out of sync and the mixer only has two internal frame syncs. It's using one for the PC and one for the current input, so it can't sync the one you want to cut to properly (see the genlock threads for more detailed explanations). Do your cameras support genlock?

It sounds like presentation mode might help a bit. I went looking into it:
"What this mode does is assigns both synchronizers to one bus and allows you to switch between all four inputs with a single wipe (or dissolve) by pressing the input channel button. This allows for direct switching, with either no effect or auto-take, with adjustable transition time. This is perfect for most multi-camera live switched events and is glitch free when using direct switching. "
http://www.thegadgetbag.net/productreviewedirolv4.html

The thing is, when reading that the first thing that comes to mind is that if there's only two frame syncs, how does it sync the signal from the PC? My guess is it can't...

Just food for thought.

@ Ted... Where do I buy a $100 keyer!? Didn't think they existed. For $1000 I know I can.

I guess I didn't have enough zeros on that thing