watch service in creche

[byronyasgur]

Hi - we are a small church moving into a new building with a very low budget but we are trying to make the service available for viewing in the creche (at absolute minimal cost) - we had already laid a cat 5 cable to send the audio to the creche from the sound desk ( this was also for if we wanted to send video in the future ) but we are actually hoping to do the video as well at this point.
The plan is to erect a single camera on a permanent stand at the sound desk (9m from the stage ) and send that along with the audio from the desk via Ethernet to the creche where it would be turned into video and audio again and viewed on a regular television
I have researched the audio/video to Ethernet converters so that's not a problem, but what i know very little about is what kind of camera to use - i only have a budget of about 200-400 and i am thinking of using a regular camcorder - obviously high quality video cameras are out of the question, so i thought a camcorder would be the one to go for however i have a few problems with this
1) i figure a camcorder is not designed primarily for this so i suppose i might end up with a surprise or two
2) a camcorder has batteries and is designed to run off those but i really want something that runs of wall or adapter power
3) i dont want to have to go through some kind of setup at the start of every service - i want something that i can just turn on - this is very important, in fact possibly the most important ( we are *extremely* low on technical people in our church and a simple switch on the camera and tv is about all we can deal with at the moment )

there are probably more issues ?? but ultimately the point I'm making is that i don't need a very high quality camera just one which is designed for the purpose, but i havent been able to find such a think ( mid quality non recording video camera ) - i did check out cctv cameras but they all seem to have very wide angle and low quality vs cost because of extras i wouldn't need such as weatherproofing and night vision

just to mention that the camera would only be used for the sermon not usually during worship (it should always have reasonably good light ) and also it will not be used for recording, this is why the quality is not a big issue, as long as it ends up viewable on the tv that's good enough

as you can probably see i am not that well up on this area so i would very much appreciate any help, thanks

[byronyasgur]

just realised i asked this in the wrong forum - meant to ask in the either the general video production or another forum - maybe a mod could move it please or else i'll just ask again, sorry

[daver2]

A problem that happened to us when we used a camcorder is that the device expected to be recording to a tape. We could quite happily use the camcorder without recording (with a live video feed) for a while - then the camera electronics would decide to automatically shut off as we didn't start recording. We had to start recording using a tape - which people would forget - which would then run out! Camcorders are, therefore, a bit of a pain.

The security camera route can work if you find a good quality camera. We were lucky when we tried a couple out. We then thought about a camera which was designed for video conferencing work. This proved much better than the security camera and came with a pan/zoom/tilt mount as standard which we could remote control from the serial port of a computer. I can't remember the model number right now but will look it up for you at the weekend.

Dave

[daver2]

I should have checked my own posts!

There is already a thread on this topic in "Video Production & Broadcasting > General Video Production > Using Security / webcam Cameras for Worship" if you want to check it out.

The camera we used is a Sony EVI-D70.

I have just checked out the price on the web and it is perhaps slightly more expensive than your budget.

Dave

[byronyasgur]

thanks dave - very helpful

[byronyasgur]

dave can i ask re the videoconferencing camera you got:

is it good enough to pick stuff up on stage, i wonder how far away you are and what sort of zoom capabilities it has - our stage is about 9 metres away i think
is it not, being a videoconferencing camera, set up so that it's trying to connect to another camera, is it happy to just output video even though it's not on a "call"

i think we might try to get one of the older video conferencing cameras eg the sony psc 1500/1600 etc - they seem to be available for around 200- only thing is i'd have to convert it from s-video out to vga before then converting it to ethernet and back again

[Les]

Originally Posted by byronyasgur

i think we might try to get one of the older video conferencing cameras eg the sony psc 1500/1600 etc - they seem to be available for around 200- only thing is i'd have to convert it from s-video out to vga before then converting it to ethernet and back again

I'm not sure on that particular camera, but doing all those conversions isn't good for quality.

Ideally you would want to minimize the number of conversions and connections.

So, if you go this route or a security cam route think about that.

If you're using baluns then get the balun that allows the most direct connection (so, if you run S-video get an S-Video converter, or run composite, etc)

[UnexpectedCure]

Instead of buying all of the converters, have you considered just running an S-Video cable straight from the camera to the TV/Monitor? If the run would be more than 30 feet or so, you can add in a signal amplifier which isn't that expensive. Since you are wanting simple and inexpensive... perhaps an amplifier like the CE LABS AV 400SV Prograde S-Video Distribution Amplifier (search Amazon for it ~$60). .

Plug Svideo from your camera into the amp along with an XLR-to-RCA cable from your sound board, then run an SVideo & RCA cable from the amp in the booth to your TV.

OR (since I just looked up "creche" and realize your probably mean the nursery) for $150 just go wireless. IE: The 5.8 GHz wireless A/V transmitter/receiver from RF-Link (Model: AVS-5811 -- search newegg for it). In this case you would plug Svideo from the camera, and an XLR-to-RCA cable form your sound board into the transmitter and then plug the receiver into your tv in the "creche". This will, of course, depend on where the room is located in relation to the sound room. However, the unit does have good range.

Hope this helps your "creative" process! I would have posted direct links to the products but I haven't posted enough fluff in the forums yet for it to know that I'm not a porno or spammer. They shouldn't be hard to search for if you want to look at those specific examples.

~Dave

[daver2]

Our camera is mounted on a wall at the rear of the Church sancturay - about 15 metres away from the platform/pulpit.

The camera has a x18 optical zoom and can be combined with an in-built x12 digital zoom. You always want to use the optical zoom first as the digital zoom will start to reduce the clarity at the higher zoom settings. We use our camera for close up work on the platform and you can zoom into the bricks on the platform wall quite close even at that distance!

You do, however, need a very sturdy mount if you plan to use the pan and tilt features. The drive electro-mechanics have quite a torque and the camera needs to be mounted very sturdily to prevent the image from shaking when pan and tilt are being used.

The camera is a 'head' only so there is none of the video conferencing digital and telecommunication circuitry present. Provide 12Volts to the camera (through the supplied mains adapter) and it gives you normal video out (on a phono connector) in addition to S-Video connector.

There is an infra red remote control that comes with the unit. You can program up to six preset positions and call them up if required from the remote. Preset position 1 is implemented automatically as soon as the power is switched on. This is your simple scenario you are after "switch the power on and it will do ...".

You can add five other preset positions so that (when selected via the remote) the camera will pan, tilt and zoom to a specific position within the Church.

I would also avoid the video signal conversions if at all possible. Standard Video and S-Video should route 100 to 150 feet with no problem.

The technical manual for the Sony EVA-D70 can be found at:

http://www.cvmt.dk/~tbm/Sony/Technic...I-D70_D70P.pdf

And no - I don't work for Sony! I think this is a pretty feature-packed and decent camera for the money. You can upgrade to computer control in the future - and it even has 'face tracking' capability, which (I hasten to add) we have not yet used to track the preacher!

Dave

[byronyasgur]

thanks for the replies people --- i am thinking of the sony evi-d30/31 which was the predecessor to the d70 i think, and as far as i know the main difference which would affect me is the zoom level is only 12 vs 18 ( which by the sounds of your report dave should be more than enough for me because our pulpit is much closer and we're not going to bother with closeups at all )

i think that camera also helps with the converter problem aswell because it outputs svideo so hopefully i can find a pair of audio+svideo to ethernet convertors ( we have the cable down already - ethernet - so no changing that ) but i'd say with just one conversion and back again the ethernet should be up to an svideo with amp surely ?

thanks again for your invaluable help

[daver2]

Sony's website states that the D70 was the update to the D30/31 so you are right there. The info. I have found states x12 optical zoom for the D30/31 but doesn't make any mention of the digital zoom. As you have stated in a previous post, the camera will be mounted about 9m from the action so a x12 optical zoom will be the equivalent of a camera placed less than a metre away from someone - which will be quite 'in your face'!

I would still recommend avoiding active technology though (and using a direct cable). There should be less to go wrong in the future.

I can't find a 'reverse' switch (or similar) on the camera. You could mount the D70 one of two ways - desktop (camera above the mount) or the other way around with the camera below the mount. There was a switch on the D70 to swap the video to compensate for the 'upside down' mounting. I can't see the equivalent switch on the D30/31 so have a look at the manual when it arrives. This may dictate the mounting arrangement.

Ensure that the beast is well mounted. This should avoid any noticable camera shake when panning or tilting. Our mount will survive the brick wall it is mounted on!

Consider running an RS232 cable now for remote control from a computer. I know you said you wanted something simple - but you will want to expand your capabilities at some point in the future no doubt. Remote control of the camera from a computer could be one way to go. I can provide details of the software we use if you need to have a look at this option.

Let us know how things go and if we can be any more help just ask.

Dave

[byronyasgur]

thanks dave - but surely 12* optical zoom means a max of 12* optical zoom so i can zoom out from that if i want

the camera will be mounted at the sound desk and we will probably not be using the zoom much ( just leaving it stationary ) - i doubt if we will use the pan at all but maybe in the future so i will try to make the mount as solid as i can - ... i'll prob put in a control cable though just in case - what cable/software are you using ( i thought you had to write your own for this type of stuff )

thanks for the reverse tip - i wasn't planning on mounting it upside down but it's nice to be aware of still