Need 4x4 matrix switcher advice, I think.

[mikesg]

I posted this a little while ago, but finally have some time to dedicate to working on it. I'm wanting to revamp the video delivery system in our main auditorium building and have the following:

• AV room source: Computer (VGA/DVI)
• AV room source: Standard home DVD player (HMDI/COMPONENT)
• AV room dest.: computer monitor showing camera output (VGA/DVI)
• Auditorium source: Camera at sound booth (HDMI, Not purchased yet)
• Auditorium dest.: Two projectors (VGA/DVI)
• Lobby dest.: Two HDTV's (VGA/DVI/HDMI)

Basically, 3 sources and 3 destinations. I would like the flexibility of at least one more of each, in a device close to $2K. I was looking at the HDMI over IP solution from Just Add Power, but they still require a 3rd party controller for the switch, and don't yet support screen blank-out or groups; e.g. switching one source to two destinations at once. Their own computer control software isn't ready and I don't think it will support blanking out the destinations anyway when it is finished. With the 3rd party controller which they made sound expensive, I'm really getting over budget with all the other stuff needed for completing the project.

Does anyone know of something that will allow me to do the above? Do I need to list more detail? TIA.

--
Mike

[petereit]

OK, I have been EXACTLY where you are and have learned LOTS of lessons.

How long are your cable runs? HDMI is (mostly) fine under 35', but gets REAL finicky beyond that. Don't even think about running a 50' or longer HDMI cable unless it has a built-in equalizer on the receiving end, or you're running a pro-grade HDMI signal booster/equalizer in your chain.

The other thing you'll have fits with is the HDMI connections themselves. They don't lock. Before long, you'll start experiencing random video dropouts that are solved by just pushing in on the HDMI connectors. That gets tired REAL quick.

We used to have 2 to 3 random dropouts to the projectors each service -- all of them solved by pushing in on the HDMI connectors on the HDMI splitter box in the sound booth.

Since we upgraded to a Panasonic HD switcher, I pulled the 75' and 125' HDMI cables that were run to our projectors and replaced them with SDI cable -- locking BNC connectors (praise God!) directly to the program outs on the switcher on one end, AJA SDI-to-HDMI boxes on the other end with 2' HDMI cables to the projectors. Everything is rock-solid to the projectors now.

I still go component out of the switcher into a Geffen component-to-HDMI converter, through a 75' HDMI cable to a Kramer 1-to-10 HDMI splitter that feeds all of our HDTVs in our front lobby, nurseries and offices. We've never had a problem with that signal chain. I chalk that up to the Kramer splitter. It was expensive, but it absolutely does the job of keeping the HDMI feed clean and strong.

If I had it all to do over again, I would figure out how I could run SDI cable EVERYWHERE and use a BlackMagic VideoHub for all my signal routing. I suspect that may be too pricey for your budget, but if you want to future-proof your purchasing decisions, I would move heaven and earth to get a full SDI signal chain in your budget.

[mikesg]

From the AV room (which is in a corner of the auditorium) we have preexisting VGA and CAT5 going to the projectors. The CAT5 was going to be used for control originally, but the idea didn't materialize. Runs to the camera (70') and lobby screens (125' & 155') haven't happened yet. I'm limited in conduit size, so I can't pull more than the equivalent of 6 CAT5/6 cables. And even that's going to be a chore.

Wow, just got off the phone with a vendor. My head asplode.

[petereit]

Then you don't even want to think about trying to pull HDMI cable. It's about 5 Cat5 cables thick and you can't remove the ends.

[tnyturner]

Petereit,

Can you comment on the resolutions to your projectors after switching from HDMI to SDI? Thanks.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, I do everything over CAT5 or SDI with converters.

Mike

[petereit]

Originally Posted by tnyturner

Can you comment on the resolutions to your projectors after switching from HDMI to SDI? Thanks.

No difference. Same beautiful crystal clear image. Just never have any dropouts or glitches from loose HDMI connectors.

[tnyturner]

PeterIT, Can you provide some model numbers for the Panasonic HD switcher and AJA converters that you are using? Also, if you have any visio diagrams of your setup, please let me know. We experiencing exactly what you are describing with HDMI cables and need some guidance. Thanks in advance.

[petereit]

I'll be more than happy to help, but particular model numbers are different with different input/output needs, cable run lengths and even environmental conditions. What works great with my equipment might not work at all for yours.

Why don't you start by telling us what kind of equipment you're using (cameras, switcher, computer, projectors, distribution etc.), how long your cable runs are and what kinds of problems you're experiencing.

[Brad Weber]

One of the first aspects you will have to deal with is addressing the multiple signal types and formats. You probably need to either pick a signal format and convert everything to and from that same format or use a matrix router that incorporates the conversion.

Another aspect may be the image format and resolution. Is there a single format and resolution that all sources and destinations support and what are the results with that? For example, if the two projectors are 1024x768 native resolution, the two "TVs" native 1920x1080 and the monitor 1366x768 native, what resolution should the sources be and how do you deal with the varying formats, e.g. do you letterbox a widescreen image on the projectors or pillarbox 4:3 images on the TVs and monitor? One thing to keep in mind with SDI is that it was developed as a video production format and as a result many SDI devices are only compatible with standard video resolutions (such as 640x480, 1280x720 and 1920x1080) and scan rates (29.97/30Hz and 59.94/60Hz) and may not be compatible with some common computer resolutions and scan rates. So if you have a 1280x800, 1024x768, 1366x768 or similar native resolution projector then you may not be able to distribute a native resolution signal via SDI, thus potentially requiring scaling in the projector.

Another consideration sounds like the switcher control. How do you envision switches happening? Is simple cut switching acceptable are were you thinking of having transitions and fades?

Yet another factor may be that other than possibly HDMI you seem to be addressing only video, but is audio relevant to any of the sources and/or destinations?

There are options for HDMI cable that make pulling it more practical, in fact probably easier to pull than pre-terminated coax. And there are an increasing number of solutions for HDMI connector captivity. I'm not suggesting that HDMI distribution is a good solution, just that the reasons for that are not necessarily those noted.

[tnyturner]

Thanks again for your help. We are a portable church and we setup and teardown all of this equipment every weekend. We are in a school gym and do not have much money. Below is my setup:

I have two input sources:
1) Macbook Pro running OS X Lion. Software is ProPresenter 4.2.2
2) JVC COMPACT HAND-HELD 3-CCD CAMCORDER GY-HM100U

I have three switched outputs:
1) Sanyo PLC-WL2500
2) Sanyo PSG-DWL100 WXGA
3) Sanyo PLC-WL2500

I use a Gefen 4x4 ToolBox matrix switcher. All three runs from the switcher to the projector are 100' HDMI cables. I realize we are breaking every rule for line limitations for HDMI and that is probably the main cause of our issues. I can provide a diagram of my setup. What I am looking for is a low cost solution that will withstand the plugging and unplugging and will work for another year or so when we move to a permanent facility. This setup worked great in an analog world with an Edirol switch, but the transition to digital has not been as smooth. I have been looking at converting HDMI to UTP Ethernet and using shorter HDMI cables or just keeping my current set up and buying some hdmi signal boosters. We are not doing any production work, but ultimately would like to add video for our podcasts. Thanks again and I look forward to your suggestions.