Major upgrade and new dimmer pack

[nbonora]

We're going from 16 to 250 channels in our sanctuary, to accommodate just about any fixture at any time. I need advice on what kind/size dimmer pack will be needed to handle this many channels.

Thanks,
-Nick

[waynehoskins]

How many conventional fixtures do you need to accommodate? How many circuits do you have (or will you have) going out to lighting positions? Do these need to be 2.4K circuits, or are 1.2Ks sufficient, or will you need some larger 6K circuits? What console are you getting? What size facility do you have?

Taking a stab in the dark, perhaps are you getting an Express 250? If you wanted 250 channels of 2.4K dimming to go along with it, that would take most of 3 full Sensor, CD80, or similar 96-racks, not a trivial investment or installation. Additionally, you might also need or want an architectural control system (wall plate control stations, etc.) such as Unison to interface with it.

Not many small spaces have three 96-racks of dimming, even sub-1000-seat theatres with hundreds of lights in the air. Many have two, many more have one, but at more than $10K apiece, three 96-racks and the infrastructure to support them would be generally cost-prohibitive. Especially seeing how you have 16 channels (of control? of dimming? both?) now, perhaps moving lights are or will be a significant contributor to expected channel count? If that's the case, moving lights don't run on dimmers, and in fact use multiple control channels per fixture. Moving lights and LEDs are becoming increasingly common in the industry, even in churches, meaning you can often get better results and use fewer conventionals (and therefore fewer dimmers) than a decade ago, a welcome improvement.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, that would be a huge amount of dimmers. Do you really need all 250? Do you even have distribution for all those?

[nbonora]

@wayne and Mike, thanks for the replies. I am gathering the info you were asking about to give more clarification. At most we'd be running between 75-100 fixtures at a time, mainly for special events. an average Sunday service would require 25-30. I hear what you're saying about the LED's, and we have a number of them, but honestly the way they wash light has been a pain and not as clean as we'd like.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by nbonora

We're going from 16 to 250 channels in our sanctuary, to accommodate just about any fixture at any time. I need advice on what kind/size dimmer pack will be needed to handle this many channels.

You mention dimmer packs, are you looking at multiple distributed dimmer packs or a centralized dimming system with installed dimmer racks?

As Wayne noted, the equipment options are a factor of not just the number of channels but also the capacity of each channel/circuit, the ability of the related infrastructure to support the dimming system and, of course, the budget. Chances are that if you are going to that many channels then most would have a small load. However, the load that must be used in calculating the wiring for each circuit and the load for the power serving the dimming system is not based on what is on a circuit but rather what could be on it, so even with lower rated dimmer packs the power and possibly physical space requirements for 250 channels of dimming may be significantly greater than what currently exists.

And when considering the budget don't forget that there would almost certainly be rewiring involved that requires a licensed Electrical Engineer and/or Electrician.

[nbonora]

We're for a centralized dimming system with installed dimmer racks. We're going to be using an ETC Element Control Console - 60 faders, 500 channels

[waynehoskins]

I bet you could do well with a single 96-rack loaded with 2.4Ks, 96 circuits going out to the world, and a Unison DR rack for houselights. You will probably also want to run some constant power circuits out there for movers, either present or future.

You probably want some data distribution infrastructure as well, for at least one universe if not two. I don't remember if Element treats attribute channels for movers as separate channels or not; either way you could potentially fill up one universe, and it's pretty common to put dimmers and movers on separate universes anyhow. Depending on size, you may want one or more multi-output opto splitters, running a line out to each position.

[Esoteric]

As Wayne and Brad said, there are many forces at work here. There are a lot of ways to do this.

The first is to put in three 96 racks worth of dimmers. That is a LOT of dimmers. At 2.4kW per dimmer, even if you took up some as constant circuits for moving lights, that is a LOT of lights. There are high end theater setups without that many dimmers.

The next option is to put in a 96 rack and simply run 96 circuits and double everything at the circuit (with two-fers if they are necessary).

Another option is to put in 192 circuits and double them at the rack. So that, for example, you would have two #1s in the house that both ran back to dimmer #1. This can be useful if you need a lot of distribution, but not a lot of power.

When you run data you should certainly run data to the racks, and then a separate line that I would then split with an isolated DMX splitter to various points throughout the space (floor, ceiling, etc).

[millamber]

Please remember that 250 channels does not mean 250 dimmers.

I am assuming what you mean is that you are going from a 16 channel controller to one with 250 channels. A channel is only a control number, meaning you can have 250 different things independently controlled. One channel could be control for a single dimmer, another for pan control of a moving light, another for tilt, and so on...

I wouldn't worry about trying to fill up your new control console. Extra unused channels are like excess air; there if you need it..

[Esoteric]

Certainly. I thought the OP was saying he wanted 250 dimmers.

Yeah, just because your console has 250 channels of control doesn't mean you HAVE to have 250 dimmers.

[waynehoskins]

... and these days, there's increasingly less reason to have 250 dimmers than there ever has been.

[Esoteric]

I am about to equip two theaters (a 300 seater and a 150 seater) with ONE 96 rack.