Increase lighting in church

[cwell]

Was asked to help a church out with lighting and suggested that they do it in stages, a few Source fours in the rear and eventually some pars closer to the front.

This is the church setup -










It was suggested by a friend that we go with this setup -

2- 6 channel Smartbars (this will allow for more lights later)
1- 24 channel controller (this will allow for future upgrades)
4- S4 10 Deg. Fixtures
6- Lamps (2 spares)

[RonK]

Makes sense so far...where are the hanging positions for the 10 degrees?
Depending on how far back they will be you may get away with 14 degree fixtures, save a couple bucks and get more coverage.

Adding in stages is a fine approach, and Smart Bars are a good choice to do that.

You might find, however, that adding front light without any top/ back light may make people on stage appear flattened, no dimensionality. As well it looks like it might be tricky getting a good angle from the front with 10 degrees without them being too low and straight on, which again will flatten everyone out.

[cwell]

hmmmm interesting. So 2 S4 inter cutting wont be enough?

He tagged the price at about 8k (including his fee).

I figured there budget was around $2500 tops
are there any other options besides the 14degrees?

[Esoteric]

You can get dimensionality just fine without more fixtures. The goal is to get the offset for each lighting area at as close as possible to 45 degrees. The vertical level of the lights makes no difference as far as flattening the subject. All that really matters in that respect is horizontal split off of center (center being the center of the area).

Where vertical angle comes into effect is in the eyes and on the background. Too high and you get "raccoon eyes" (black holes where the eyes should be), too low and you get splash all over the back wall.

What you do get without back or top light is that on video your subject might appear to "merge" with the background instead of standing out from it. Those huge windows should prevent that though.

Have you thought about moving your lighting position forward and using 19 degree or 26 degree fixtures (which are cheaper than 10 degree units)?

I would dump the 24 channel controller and look at Chamsys MagicQ and an Enttec USB dongle on a good, stable PC. This solution (sans PC) will only run you about $125 and provides infinate expandability, rather than the limiting of 24 channels, which most churches outgrow very quickly.

Mike

[tcahall]

I second what Mike has said with the modification of using an Enttec Pro dongle for about $160. MagicQ is a great console for a bargain barn price and you can grow with it without any retraining. The ability to start cheap and grow into a full blown ML console is a real feature.

Tim.

[theatre4jc]

I'd be timid about putting S4s off the rear of the room. The chandeliers hang very low compared to the stage having a ceiling on it. Or at least it appears to. S4s are great fixtures but I from looking at it you may want to consider placing a few lights on the side walls about where the projectors are. Get some S4pars or Parnels. Wouldn't take many fixtures to cover the stage. Now if you need specific areas then ignore what I'm saying.

[cwell]

I see your point there main focus here is to get the lighting in the front of the church better suitable for recordings. I am wondering though it may seem that the side angle might be a bit tricky as putting the par cans on the side and angling forward will not be an easy task.

[theatre4jc]

If you attached a bar to the wall they you could hang the light with the yoke angled any way you need. What I would do is use a threaded flange to the wall with a 3' pipe (schedule 40 with a threaded end) sticking straight out. You could easily fit 2 maybe 3 S4 pars on the bar. The bar doesn't have to run up the wall, but instead sticking straight out. Doesn't look like you have a really big area to cover so it wouldn't take a lot.

[cwell]

Originally Posted by theatre4jc

If you attached a bar to the wall they you could hang the light with the yoke angled any way you need. What I would do is use a threaded flange to the wall with a 3' pipe (schedule 40 with a threaded end) sticking straight out. You could easily fit 2 maybe 3 S4 pars on the bar. The bar doesn't have to run up the wall, but instead sticking straight out. Doesn't look like you have a really big area to cover so it wouldn't take a lot.

Could you draw a diagram or explain in more detail which wall and how the bar would protrude?

[theatre4jc]

Forgive the crudity and scale I just quickly drew this up in illustrator. It's not to scale but I think you'll get the idea. The bottom picture is a random google search picture showing a schedule 40 pipe and flange. Top picture is how I would put them in your space, painting them to match the wall color.

[Esoteric]

Have you run the numbers for the weight distribution on a set up like that theater4jc? I know I would not install a 4' pipe (the size you would need for 3 lights) on a flange, cantilevered like that without some support from underneath or from the the other end of the pipe.

Mike

[theatre4jc]

I have not ran the numbers, but if you look at the pictures above that have the projectors mounted sorta similar it has an aircraft cable from the end to help with the weight. Same thing could work and handle the weight no problem.

I'm just throwing out a suggestion, I'm not an engineer or rigger. I was trained as a designer, was taught to dream it up and let other people figure out how to do it and if it can't be done I have to adapt my vision to reality.