hazer flow issue

[remdim]

Hello,

I've rented a Unique 2 hazer by Look Solutions on multiple occasions now with the same result. The hazer is placed on the stage floor (either behind the curtain with the nozzle poking out or in the wings) and all the haze flows straight from the device to our ceiling. It almost looks like a volcano. I've tried different angles, locations (at the same vertical height of zero), and fans to dissipate and direct. Same result remains.

Our hvac system has the air returns out in the house on the far sides of the stage....you could almost say the 'wings' of the house. So the haze isn't flowing straight into the system.

Interesting: when I test run the hazer in the empty house it works beautifully. The room fills at a reasonable rate, dissipates evenly, and the hang time is gorgeous. However, ten minutes after our auditorium fills up (800+ bodies) the flow issue is immediately back. Note that this is probably not the heating system kicking in but rather cold air to compensate for the people in the room.

I've concluded that the problem is a) the hvac system is sending air into the space in such a way that it naturally flows up for some reason and the haze is caught, b) heat from people/lighting is drawing the air to the ceiling, or c) I'm missing something obvious.

Any thoughts or experiences similar to this? I'd love to use haze in the future but it's just not a good looking effect as it stands.

Thanks in advance!

[petereit]

I believe the Unique 2 is a water-based hazer. You might want to try an oil-based hazer. Oil seems to be less sensitive to heat variations and is generally better handled by people with respiratory sensitivity (or so I'm told.)

[EmilBarnabas]

Have you tried running the output of the hazer into a fan pointed the direction you want it to go?

[Esoteric]

There are many reasons to avoid oil based hazers in all due respect. The oil coats EVERYTHING (including delicate electronics) and prolonged exposure is toxic.

Stick with water based haze. The heat can cause the haze to rise but more likely it is that the AC comes on more powerfully with the space full.

Mike

[waynehoskins]

Yep, even on a one-off the oil-based hazers coats every blessed thing near the stage with a layer of oil -- cables, floor, anything. For regular use, that's just nuts. Water is much nicer on things, no residue.

[remdim]

Yep; tried pointing it where I want it to go. I also spent quite a bit of time fiddling with different generic residential fans in front of the nozzle to get the haze to dissipate more.

Unfortunately stage volume can also pose a barrier to creativity with this. The front row seating is only 30ft or so from the curtain; between music sets having multiple fans moving air can be a distraction.

[clayton.farrow]

Hrmph, I came here hoping to find an answer to this as well. This has been bothering me for the better part of a year.

We use a Le Maitre Radiance hazer (water based), and I have had plenty of success with a DF-50 in the past, but have never brought a DF-50 into the room in question due to incompatibility with the fire alarms.

My problem is essentially the same - house is only 30 feet or so from the hazer location, we have a low stage ceiling (16'), and HVAC is run just above trim height on the grid (awesome planning, eh?). I have the hazer run in 30-45 second increments automatically at its lowest output setting; I have definitely set off the fire alarm with the unit functioning at 15% for no more than 10 seconds. I have trouble keeping the haze level constant on stage throughout our service.

We have a Home Depot box fan as well to help get the haze circulated through the room, but no matter how I angle the fan/hazer setup I cannot prevent the "billowy" effect from happening. The best I have got is to move the hazer about 15' off stage and let it build onto stage, but then the other side of the stage does not get enough to show any beams.

As I mentioned, since HVAC is directly above the stage, I think a major issue might be air handlers moving air off stage, essentially making my desire to have it "hang" in the air nearly impossible.

Am I missing something? Suggestions?

[Esoteric]

I know this is not the solution you want, but often (for many of the reasons you mention) one hazer is not enough. Have you tried two hazers (one off stage left and one offstage right) to get the amount AND coverage you want?

Mike

[clayton.farrow]

You're right, that's not the solution I wanted (hah!). We have not tried two hazers on either side of the stage, and I would hesitate to get a second mostly due to the fact I haven't even begun to max the output on the first. I actually run the hazer output at its bare minimum because it still puts out a significant amount of haze.

After working with it on Sunday, I think I going to have to drop the hazer from the grid as far off stage as possible and let it slowly build over the course of the morning until the services start.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, sometimes it isn't about the amount of haze, but about the placement. I did a show at the Alley back in the day and we had 8 hazers in it, and none of them ever ran at even 1/4 capacity. But we needed them for distribution because of airflow issues.

Mike

[clayton.farrow]

From a budgetary standpoint, would it be feasible to create some sort of distribution system? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking PVC with inline fans to draw the haze across the stage.

[remdim]

That's what keeps coming to my mind, Clayton. I was hesitant to do so in the past as my hazers have been rentals and the manual explicitly warns against this. It just seems such a waste to under-utilize the machine but I see Mike's point.

I used to work at a theater and got great effect from a single hazer. I don't recall the make/model, but it was one of the touring standards at the time (just a few years ago). Our proscenium was about 35' with another 40' for the fly system above the stage as well as extra room in the wings. We placed the hazer w/box fan in a wing downstage right and the air returns were upstage left. Flooded the space before the house opened, then just 5-10% during the show. Worked really well.

I think having wings would be helpful; lots of room offstage to thin out the flow before it enters the audience's viewing angle.