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Print Media and Publications Print is media too! Discuss ways to implement print with visual media.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Lori
Spectator

 
Pre-Printed Bulletin Shells

We are searching for paper for bulletin shells. It is my job to update our archaic church bulletin, which is currently printed in a sad blue font on a Risograph. I'd like to switch to an 11X17 tri-fold. We've experimented with stuff from outreach communications, but I am wondering if anyone has seen any good paper websites where I can get a plainer, yet professional paper without all of the canned photos on the front? I'd like a paper with a washed out graphic in the background if possible. My boss likes the shell "A Place to Belong" if anyone has seen that at outreach's website (www.outreach.com) minus the people on the front.

Thanks!
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 09:51 AM
Robert Adams's Avatar
Formerly known as Laptop

 
 Join Date: Mar 2004 
 Last Online: Sunday, September 9th, 2012 
Welcome to CMN Lori!

At my church, we use bulletin shells from Designs in Worship. And print inserts to be placed in them. I would also recomend looking at the following CMN thread regarding bulletins: Bulletins .

Some churches do use pre-bought shells, but if you have the resources, it may also be a good idea to design one on your own; then you can include the content you specifically want in it.

Hope this helps.
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 10:51 AM
brand1m
Spectator

 
So are you looking for paper that might be good for a bulletin, or for a pre-printed shell?
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 11:38 AM
Lori
Spectator

 
I've looked at a bunch of websites offering shells. I'm not sure we are really liking the "stock" or "canned" look of the shells, commercial photos, etc. What I do like is the washed out graphics that are often used in these shells, leaves, etc, in the background can be attractive. I'd like to incorporate paper like this and use our own black & white text, logo over the top. 11X17, tri-fold is the plan as of now.

It seems the pre-printed shells are too customized, and the paper I have found so far is too plain???
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 12:13 PM
brand1m
Spectator

 
Ok, I think I'm following you now. When you see the washed out graphics, those are design elements that they have printed. Although these can sometimes make for nice design elements, I would strongly discourage anyone from taking on a stock with this stuff printed on it for a piece that is as regularly produced as a bulletin. They are ok for special events or short runs, but they will grow tiresome in a hurry.

There are many concerns that have to be considered when generating a shell. If I were you, I would get with whomever will print the shell for you, and let them know what equipment that you will be overprinting with, and let them make suggestions for paper and the process. Some papers will not run through inkjets and lasers well or it might not fold well so it would be wise to work with someone you can actually talk to if you don't want one of the stock options (I am against them for the most part). www.frenchpaper.com and www.neenahpaper.com both have some really nice papers. At french, look at the speckletone. I'm not sure about where you live, but here, there is a paper company that has a sample room that you can see printed samples of many of their papers, so you might look into that.

A bulletin is something that is seen by virtually every person that attends your church, so I would look at retaining a designer to create something that represents your church and not something that just "looks cool". In the end, you will have something that is quality and that you will not be trying to replace in four months. If you have more questions on paper or design, I'm happy to help.
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 12:25 PM
Lori
Spectator

 
Thanks for the info. Do you think even a very subtle design element will get tiresome? Do you use plain paper for your bulletin? I actually live in Neenah, so Neenahpaper.com is a site (and a location) I visit often! We've been looking at paper samples from several local outfits, but haven't found what we're looking for yet. I'm hoping for something warm and contemporary, possibly a light gold or tan/brown. I found one shell at outreach that, if they removed the stock photos from the front, I might like. http://www.outreach.com/print/Detail...N=41+10&R=1004

All the paper stock I've looked at so far seems very plain compared to the pre-printed shells. I will probably have to sit down with our printer and work up pricing on custom shells. I was hoping to save some in the budget by finding some paper that had a sophisticated, yet not too over-the-top design that we could order in bulk.
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 12:28 PM
nathandiehl's Avatar
Church Media Expert

 
 Join Date: Jan 2003 
 Last Online: Friday, September 17th, 2010 
edit: this was posted prior to brand's and lori's most recent posts. (end edit)

Lori,
okay, to help with your terminology: there is no such thing as paper that comes with the transparent graphics. This paper is usually white that has been printed on. After it has been printed on, it is no longer referred to as 'paper,' and instead is considered a 'shell.' this is why brand1m and others (it took me about 3 reads to figure it out) will be confused.

several questions:
what is your budget?
What kind of a machine (laser printer, etc) are you going to run the black on?
are you really going to print in black and white, or just black?
how many weekly bulletins will you print?

there are several options you have--depending on what your answers are, i'll give you one or two (but i'm lazy and don't want to spend 30 minutes typing )

Last edited by nathandiehl; Wednesday, July 6th, 2005 at 12:31 PM. Reason: i was late responding...
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 12:43 PM
Lori
Spectator

 
Sorry for the terminology confusion.. i'm new to this. When I was searching for paper that had design elements on it (pre-printed shells) the web often referred to it as "designer paper" would that be the same thing?

Anyway, our existing paper budget is about $4-5,000 / year. We print 900 bulletins a week, and this budget has to include other items such as newsletter paper, inserts, etc.

We have a Risograph 3750. It can do black and one other color. We also have a B&W Canon and have the option to outsource if needed. We'll print in just black (not white
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 01:15 PM
brand1m
Spectator

 
Lori – I think it depends on the design element. If it is well thought out, then probably not. I was talking more about a pattern or something printed on the entire stock, which now, doesn't look like what you were talking about. I'm not sure what our church is using right now, but I think it is a 60lb. text offset opaque white. This is at the low end of "good" paper. Heavier than regular 28# copy paper, and opaque enough that you don't see through it too easily. They are printed in full color and they overprint the black.

Usually, if you ask your printer, they will have all kinds of sample books from different companies. The manufacturers will have these two. I don't know if Neenah has a public showroom, but if they do, go there and talk with someone there and they can point you in the right direction. Obviously, they will point you to their products, but it might help you get better at asking the right questions if you don't want to use their's.

The link that you provided from outreach doesn't look that bad. If you could track down several different ones you like, you could probably present those to a designer and let them come up with something somewhere in the middle of them. I'm not really a big fan of stock shells because A. I'm a designer and B. A custom design fits YOU and YOUR organization, and a stock one may or may not fit exactly.

People tune out the pastor, the worship, etc. but they don't tune out the bulletin. Its the one piece of advertisement that virtually everyone at the church will be willing to look at, so spending a little extra time and money on it is well worth it, IMO.

As for the budget, I did some quick math and it doesn't look like those outreach ones would be in your budget (when you factor in the newsletter, paper, insert stuff). When you talk with your printer, you will probably want to look at single color, or two color options, unless you are willing to print the entire year's worth – and I would strongly advise against that because if in 6 months you hate it, you're stuck for another 6 months. Besides, I'm of the opinion that a nice one or two color design is often more sophisticated than a full color design because too many people don't know how to mix their colors well, so it ends up looking kind of cheap. Another note, based on your budget, you may end up needing to go to a smaller sheet to save some money.
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Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 01:23 PM
nathandiehl's Avatar
Church Media Expert

 
 Join Date: Jan 2003 
 Last Online: Friday, September 17th, 2010 
no problem that you're new to this--everyone was--or is--at one time or another. i hope you stick around CMN and spread some of your own knowedge around!

900 is a large run.

i don't know if you've crunched the numbers, but the outreach paper you linked to earlier would cost you $4,887.06 per year. (900 (weekly quantity) x 94 (boxes of 500 sheets) x $51.99 (cost per ream) )
that's your whole paper budget right there!
(on a side note, you should probly request an increase in budget if you're trying to spend way more on a better looking bulletin--especially since your boss wants you to spend more!)

At this cost and run, i think you could have a custom-designed, full-color, full-bleed shell made (at qty 46,800) for cheaper than you're looking at these shells. if you can plan enough to buy two years stock (qty 100,000), you should be under $5,000/year. (even cheaper, you can do a 2-color full bleed)

I would sit down and talk with a printer and see your options. they can give you a quote to at least compare apples to apples. you can also get a quote from a print company that can design and print, and see how this compares. I do recommend you outsource (at the very least, quote this option and compare).

Please let us know what your plan is, how you proceed, and what resolution you come to with this issue!
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 01:40 PM
brand1m
Spectator

 
I guess it depends on who you are and who you are dealing with, but usually, 900 would be considered a small to medium run at many print shops. I wouldn't print less than 6 weeks worth at a time, that way, you can re-order at the end of the month, giving your printer 2 weeks to get your new shells to you. If you aren't going to order a large quantity like Nathan suggested, I would be sure to develop a regular printing schedule. It will make your life easier and make your printer like you more, since you won't be pressuring them to get something out tomorrow that you should have turned in to them last week.

I want to clarify something I said earlier; I said I wouldn't print an entire year's worth, and what I meant was, I wouldn't get that much of a stock shell. If you have a piece that is designed for YOUR church, then it should have the legs to last at least a year, so don't hold back – kill as many trees as possible.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wednesday, July 6th, 2005, 02:10 PM
Lori
Spectator

 
Thanks for all of your input. We'll see what happens, and I'll let you know!
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