Huge database of songs in Powerpoint format

[buggyboy]

(mods: move to any forum that would work best)

So, my googleing shows no Huge database of songs in Powerpoint format. It seems that such a thing must exist, or should exist. Why duplicate effort.

For example, I'm going to have to throw together a slideshow for a visiting pianist to show onscreen while he plays the song "he looked beyond my faults" so that the congregation knows it's not "danny boy" (same tune).

It stands to reason eventually someone else is going to need this song in powerpoint format. (it's not the best format, but it's standard and everyone uses it at some point). Why couldn't they use mine (and I theirs)?

Anyone know where the database is? if it exists?

-David

[Chkurgrnd]

If you have access to CCLI then you have access to any and all songs that are licensed by record companies, artists as well as public domain songs.

If your church holds a CCLI license (which is required anyway to reproduce lyric sheets, slides, chord sheets, etc.) then it is fairly simple to find the lyrics, type them out and reproduce them as you need.

There is no database that exists, save for CCLI, because everyone does their slides differently and there are legal reasons. Different font, different layout, 4-6 lines, copyrights are involved, etc. I understand your frustration but there is no feasible way for this to be accomplished.

[daver2]

This was the bugbear when we started out with moving over to projectors rather than song books!

My wife performed all the typing for hundreds of hymns and choruses.

This started off with the classic Google search to see what was out there already that we could use. Even if we could find a text version of what looked correct - we had to proof read it to ensure the words were exact. Of course, a large majority of words could not be found - so entry had to be done the hard way by typing...

We have all of our song library online so the A/V techs can download the latest words to their home PCs for service prep. - but this has to be password protected to prevent potential legal infringments.

If someone can post where we would be legally in transferring song word data files between two CCLI members that would be helpful.

Dave

[petereit]

If you have a CCLI license, then there isn't even typing involved, since ProPresenter can access the CCLI database and instantly import the lyrics.

Also, it's ridiculously simple to cut and paste lyrics from any source into ProPresenter. So in a sense, what you suggest is already there.

[wvpv]

I created over 400 songs in individual PPT files that we used in before our EasyWorship transition. They have come in handy several times. I'd be willing to share, if you'd like to send me a private message with your e-mail address.

They are all tagged with our CCLI number, but I have a small procedure to search/replace across multiple PPT files.

[buggyboy]

Glad to hear i'm not the only one to think of this. perhaps a legal beagle can enlighten me. how can simply maintaining a bunch of song lyrics be anything like infringement?

Selling lyrics, projecting lyrics, profiting from lyrics, etc...that i at least understand. but for instance, on my own laptop I keep the lyrics for a few hard to find songs that I eventually want to find and buy. keeping such a list seems legit. sharing my list with others seems legit also.

in what way is maintaining powerpoint files in and of itself a crime? CCLI is a license for presenting ("performing") lyrics in public...what bearing does that have on non-performing database maintenance?


Like I said to begin the thread, it's not hard to whip these things together, but it happens often enough that having a basic template with the text all ready for tweaking would be pretty nice. maybe even having suitable background that fits the text.

anyhow, that's my thinking.

[KeckCreative]

It all comes down to what you are doing with the lyrics. Having a personal database of lyrics that will never be accessed, published or distributed to anybody but yourself is not an issue. I can make personal copies of legitimately purchased items to my heart's content. However, if I cross over to publishing (meaning printing out) and/or distributing (either print or electronic copies) to others, I've now cross over the line into copyright infringement unless I have secured the rights to do so (i.e. license agreement with CCLI, Christian Copyright Solution, or other similar rights clearing service).

The only exceptions are items in public domain (check carefully) and Fair Use, which despite what people tell you has limitations. (click to view: Title 17. Chapter 1. Section 107)

[buggyboy]

I'm still not sure I understand this. And if I don't, perhaps others are equally confused.

A quick google search brings up the lyrics for almost any song.

Are the webhosts providing those lyrics illegal? I suppose some of them could have licenses, but there are far too many to say that all do. And many individuals host lyrics on personal pages. Many individuals on youtube have "lyrics videos" which contain lyrics (and audio) for many tunes.

If the provision of plain lyrics texts in ASCII or whatever to the general public is legal, how does formatting those texts into powerpoint change things?

I guess what I'm getting at is the difference between storage of lyric data (in whatever form) and "performance" of that data. It has been my understanding that CCLI is required only for "performance" (e.g. projection, printing) of lyrics. I don't recall any mention of licensing required for typing lyrics up, or assembling powerpoints, or storing said assembled powerpoints. Did I miss something?


[it occurs to me, I could type a lyric right here, in a publicly accessible forum...would this constitute infringement?]

[[as regards youtube lyric videos...if these videos are technically illegal, and youtube takes the path of assuming permission for such use is granted until the copyright owner lodges a complaint...in what way would it be different for a church to assume permission for performing lyrics?

DISCLAIMER: I'm in no way advocating infringment, etc,etc,etc, ad nauseum.]]

[wvpv]

Like KeckCreative said, the CCLI licenses are all about how the lyrics are used in public, not where or how they're stored.

If they're copyrighted lyrics you have to attribute and report usage when you use them in the bulletins or on the screens.

That's the way I understand it anyway.

[KeckCreative]

Storage or delivery format doesn't have anything to do with it. Once an original work is put in a tangible format, the creator of that work is granted certain copyright protections. Copyright infringement is more a civil law than criminal (although counterfeit operations fall more into racketeering and RICO violations). It is up to the copyright owner to bring suit against the party who is supposedly infringing upon the copyright owner's rights. The courts then decide whether the copyright owner's claim is valid and what remedy for the damages are allowed (typically financial compensation and/or destruction of illegal copies).

Because the burden is on the copyright holder to file an infringement claim, the copyright owner is probably making a judgement call about whether or not the technical violation is worth pursuing. However, just because they copyright holder isn't pursuing doesn't mean they don't have a legitimate claim of infringement. Most professionals and organizations seek to secure rights to material to avoid the potential of significant financial liability. Individuals are not immune to liability as well and there are cases where individuals have been sued by record labels for instance, but the likelihood is low.

In this day and age, respecting copyrights is more of an ethical one motivated by the potential of financial liability for damages.

[SamG269]

Question...

So if my band is playing a worship song by Chris Tomlin and we have his lyrics on the screen during the song with "Chris Tomlin Song Title Year" under every page of verses and he walks in we could be sued?

Dont mean to be direct but I think that is what Buggyboy is trying to get at. And if he isn't I sure want to know.

[dpbrucks]

Yes Sam, you could be sued. You have to display your CCLI license #, not just type in the title and singer. Oh, and you only need to display the ccli liscense on the last screen, not every screen. (in media shout, it does it automatically for you)

www.ccli.com the have an introductory video explaining the requirement and process.

It is our responsbility to do our work in ministry with integrity - the musicians are fine christian people, but this is also their profession and we should respect it and be glad they are continuing to write worship music of such quality that it gives glory to God!

Dorothy