Mixing with Ground Stacks

[cw4u]

We rented some equipment for our Discipleship Now event this past weekend and the company brought in 3 EV 12" cabinets and 2 - R-H dual 12" subs per side.

My main problem was that the stacks were at the same height as the people (generally taller than me) in front of me. So, when everyone was standing, it just all sounded muffled and when everyone sat down, it sounded fine. That coupled with a building that already had poor acoustics, coupled together to make mixing really strenuous on me. Apparently the first night, I blasted the first couple rows to death. By the second worship set, I was doing better.

But, just for future reference, how do you cope with such a problem?

[cmchamp]

Anticipate, and try to mix just above standing height.
It's all a learning process.
I'm surprised the rental company didn't put a spacer in to the the 12's higher.
When I stack my Altec A7 rig, I have two setup heights with the horns at 7', or 8' depending on the orientation of my subs.
For outdoor summer park stuff, I setup with the 7' as the audience sits usually 75' away in a 170-degree coverage area.
For more aggressive venues, where the audience sits closer to the stage and talent and they'll be standing, I use the 8' setup and put a DI or two on the back side of the horns to fire them down a bit.
C.

[Les]

Derek,

It's a tough mix in that situation.

It sounds like the company set it up as well and you mixed the show. In that situation I would insist that the sound company provide something that gets the tops above the heads of the audience and at the proper height.

I use some scaffolding to get the tops up above the subs.

In a bind in the past I've used milk crates, road cases, and wooden boxes lying around. Just make sure the rig is secure and won't easily topple over.

If you're forced to do it... Well, there is no good way to do it. Your hosed no matter what you do. Either blow away the front row to make it sound good everywhere else, or make it sound good for the first few rows and have it sound muffled for everyone else.

[cw4u]

The tops were placed right on top of the subs.

The company installed the system and did a sound check with the band. It was a little interesting to say the least.

I just needed to know what to ask for if I ever go through this again.

[waynehoskins]

You definitely want to get the horns above the heads of the first row, whether that's with spacers or scaff or whatever.

You also want to keep that first row as far back from the stacks as you can. It's rarely possible (promoters/pastors like to get everyone close and maximize capacity, you know) -- but if the front row can be 20 feet away instead of 3 feet away, you're more likely to get more consistent levels from front to back.

[Brad Weber]

Off the main topic, for which I agree with the comments already made, the 3 mains per side and the ratio of 3 mains to 2 subs per side are both a bit unusual. The main reason I bring this up is that factors such as what they are trying to achieve by having three mains and how the 3 boxes are arranged as well as the possibility of clustering all the subs together could affect the potential options.

[cw4u]

The first row was probably about 4' from the stacks. The mains were clustered in the center of the two subs. I'm not really sure why it was arranged that way. But the venue is very wide and not very deep.

[partsmanba]

Maybe trying to do a line array to get better horizontal coverage?

[Les]

Originally Posted by partsmanba

Maybe trying to do a line array to get better horizontal coverage?

Huh? A line array generally won't get you more horizontal coverage.

[waynehoskins]

Originally Posted by partsmanba

Maybe trying to do a line array to get better horizontal coverage?

That sounds much more like a conventional trap array to me.

[jdcastellente]

That's quite an interesting setup groundstacking three mains in the middle and the subs on the sides. Personally, I think you'd do better with subs in the center and just two mains on each side running stereo. You've also got to factor in phasing and the distance between the subs as well.

A good rule of thumb that was basically already talked about is that if you can't see it, you can't really hear it!

The comment about trying a line array to get better horizontal coverage probably won't solve the problem here. Simply because horizontal coverage typically refers to how wide the coverage is here. It sounds like the problem here was vertical coverage or coverage of the depth of the room. I wouldn't jump to line arrays as the first solution because they really aren't the end-all-cure-all.

There are alot of variables to consider here but I'd start with making sure your speakers are above everyone's heads. Not too high because you don't want to overshoot and just blast the back wall and get a ton of slap back. Educate yourself on the speakers you are renting beforehand. Read about how loud they will be and how they disperse. Then, once you know that, make an educated decision of how to set it up. Even if the audio company is doing it, they might not do it correctly. It pays to have a working knowledge before you move forward. I hope this helps...

Jason Castellente

[stevelam]

Wow I agree, that sounds a little funky to me. I am a big fan of pole mounting the a main over each sub and putting them 25% in from each side wall. i.e. if the room is a wide rectangle and is 100' wide I would put the speakers at 25' and 75'. That way they are equidistant from the walls and each other. I know it sounds overly simplistic but it works pretty well for simple portable rigs.

Also +1 to the people that said get those tops above head level. I do a little DJ work and help a lot of local Kingdom customers with portable systems. Make sure to ask the rental company to bring in spacer bars for in between the sub and a top. Or worst comes to worst get them to bring in two speakers stands and just throw the tops on a stand next to the sub or in front of the sub.