I am so glad I am out!

[amd250]

I haven't been on here for a long while. I worked at Churches from 2000-2009. I finally got out of the Church work and never felt better. The leadership setup in most churches is so ridiculous. Board member fighting with other board members,
staff arguing whose idea is better. People mad at the Pastor. Egos getting in the way of the real work that needs to be done. People feeling left out or hurt. What a mess. I am working in the AV field in secular job now and wow it's so relaxing.

Hmmm. something is wrong with that.

I now go to a Church, where there is a Pastor and elders, 5 men and the Pastor.
No membership, no voting, the church record are an open book for anyone. People say how can you tithe, when you have no decision making as a member.
Or have a vote in how your money is spent. Prayer and trust God what your doing is right. The corporate style Churches in this country are such a crock.

Those 5 men decide what goes on, we are there to serve them. Ideas are brought to them, if they say yes, then it's yes. If not we wait on the idea. No debating at all. If there are any ego issues, they are dealt with right away. We had one man who was put in a leadership role and decided he was going to run his ministry like he did at his high level corporate role. Talking down to people, constantly on their backs, complaining to them. He lasted 6 months and was
knocked off his horse.

If the Pastor says that the sound needs to be adjusted, we do it. If we
have a problem with that, we then it's our problem and have to deal with it.


On the bright side, most of the time we are left alone to do our ministries, but if the leadership says go left, we go left.

It may not be the norm but it is so relaxing realizing we are not in charge, the leadership is and they are responsible to God for what goes on.

Yes we have lost a few people (maybe 5 in the past 2 years) due to ego issues.
But wow it's a joy to minister where I am at now.

When will we all realize that wasting time on who hurt who and feeling bad that they didn't like my idea, or I am feeling left our is the enemies way of getting to us. My new Motto is " If no one is dying and we don't need and ambulance, then why panic and why worry"


God Bless!!!!

[petereit]

Sounds like our church! We do what Pastor says. If he doesn't like it, we don't do it. If he's wrong, he's accountable to HIS pastor from our “home church” in Florida, to the Deacons in the sense that they're men of virtue who Pastor respects and trusts to advise him, and to his wife.

But Pastor is THE decision maker. (As he likes to say, “Anything with more than one head is a freak!”) We also have no formal membership and we teach strong on tithes, offerings and contributing your time, talent and resources in the service of Christ to our community and our world.

There's no back-biting, no complaining, no power-plays, no high-dollar-contributors-of-particular-prominance, no political posturing, no church splits or voting anyone into or out of anything. If you have a great idea, pitch it to Pastor. If he likes it, you're in charge of it! If you have a complaint, take it to Pastor. If he finds it valid, he'll put you in charge of fixing it! (Or so it seems.)

And it seems to be working. We have about a 50/50 racially diverse congregation in the heart of the Deep South (Pastor is Samoan so he makes fun of ALL of us), debt-free right in the middle of the 7th poorest region in the US, running about 1,000 members and growing faster than we can expand our buildings.

[rjwalker]

Interesting how different people are..... As is said, one man's meat is another man's poison

[amd250]

Wow that great. We are only 2 years old, we have 150 people, with no debt either, and we all trust the pastor. He is down to earth and he has trustworthy men working with him. I know him very well. If his elders question anything, he takes a step back to discuss it with them. He is still the final call but he finds wisdom in many. The elders range from ages 40-65. It is working for us also.

[TimothyPaul]

The thing is, serving in a church, you have to realize you are their to support the Pastor's vision. If you don't share his vision, you are at the wrong church.

[rjwalker]

Originally Posted by TimothyPaul

The thing is, serving in a church, you have to realize you are their to support the Pastor's vision. If you don't share his vision, you are at the wrong church.

Supporting the pastor doesn't mean one believes in pastor infallibility, I hope.

[D.R.HADDOCK]

Churchs are run by people !
Not text book perfect christains !
Sometimes ego's get in the way,
Sometimes its just money !
If you dont like the way a church is run,then get out !
It just is possiable that one day they will learn and get it right.
I now know that I'am far from perfect,
But I didn't understand that in the start.
Thankfully God is patient,
And I am getting better everyday.
And the people at my church have put up
with my nonsense on occasions.
Thank God for his patience !

[MrM1]

Originally Posted by amd250

People say how can you tithe, when you have no decision making as a member.
Or have a vote in how your money is spent.

I had to LOL when I read this. Seriously ... people actually think this way? Yeah I know they do. This is not my first time around the block, I have been pastoring since 1989. (started in Conway SC ... so I know a little about southern thinking - not to say you are in the south though )

But it almost sounds biblical don't it: "Thou shalt tithe with thy income as long as thy get a vote in how it is spent" ... Blah ha ha ha ha. Yeah right. The one that really cracked me up was the people who were withholding their tithes, putting them in the bank so they could "starve the pastor out". Then when he left ... they brought all there banked tithes back into the church. Yikes ... sure would not want to be living under that curse.

But Don't get me wrong, I work within the confines of a constitutional style government, but there comes a point where trust and leadership begin to trump rules and regulations.

Guess I am just an old hippy who basically believes we should love Jesus and do the stuff. And if you are doing the stuff you really dont have time to worry about much else.

[nbrakband]

No doubt, we should be submissive to leadership. We should also know that the Lord is our Sheperd (Pastor). There is a real danger in soley following a human leader. People follow leaders into all kinds of strange doctrine and practices. There needs to be an umbrella of leadership (checks and balances) with our Lord being the only true Pastor. Learning to go through a process toegether and loving eachother, even through all the trials, is the Christian experience.

[saltydad]

Good for you, AMD250! You are not alone in being sickened by the "corporate (American/Roman) government" in most churches today.
What you describe is a church that is living in the same style as the first churches that were organized under the apostles and men like Timothy and Titus. The five men in your church were called the elders, pastors, bishops and overseers. The man that you call, Pastor, was called the evangelist (Ephesians 4:11ff). It truly is a sweet setup that allows every believer to function in ministry under a leadership style designed by Christ. God bless you and your fellowship as you flourish together in the King's business.

[D.R.HADDOCK]

We need to be really carefull about publicly criticising ang pastors.
If you dont like how they do what they do. move on and go to another church,
but dont publically critisise.
They might honestly beleive in there own hearts that the way they
do it is for the good of the church, you might see it dfferently,
we are all different, and so we tend to see the same things differently,
ultimatily they are accountable to GOD.
So I will NOT therefore critise any pastors.

[wogster]

Originally Posted by D.R.HADDOCK

We need to be really carefull about publicly criticising ang pastors.
If you dont like how they do what they do. move on and go to another church,
but dont publically critisise.
They might honestly beleive in there own hearts that the way they
do it is for the good of the church, you might see it dfferently,
we are all different, and so we tend to see the same things differently,
ultimatily they are accountable to GOD.
So I will NOT therefore critise any pastors.

I think the problems come when, the people who don't like what the pastor is doing, gets fairly large, or it's a very small church, the board has a dilemma, do they kick out someone (or a group) who donates a goodly portion of the budget, or do they waffle on it, and leave the pastor twisting in the wind?

Disagreements on the way things need to be done, are why we have hundreds of denominations rather then 2 or 3.