New Facility: Tech Budgets

[rjwalker]

We are part way through planning a "Family Life Center" (read "'gym' with a stage")

Basic footprint: 90 x 120. Stage 20 deep (leaving 70' width) x 50.

Seating at round tables 500, in rows +/- 1000.

Projected overall construction budget $2 - 2.2 million

Various sources I've found suggest 2 rules of thumb for tech: sound, projection, lighting and video of (1) 20% of the budget or (2) $800 - $1,000 per seat.

Anyone care to comment or have links/information to share?

(I'm working with people who think $5,000 to 10,000 ought to do the job!

And who think the only issue with lighting is "Is it bright or dark?")

[CCCLights]

not sure what you are planning to do in your space, but 3 years ago, we started a contemporary service in our gym. we added audio, video and lighting for a total cost of $325,000.
--Chuck--

[kbob]

I'd say more info needed for sure. Sound-what type of services do you have, and are planning on having-contemporary, blended, rock, traditional?

ambient lighting? How many windows/direct sunlight is going to be in the worship center, and how much is going to hit the screen? If you can make both numbers zero, you'll be much better off.

HD or SD-I'd say if starting from scratch design with hd, and use sd until all your graphics and video libraries are up to speed.

floor /stage diagram would help too. I know you may not have all this right now-just let us know what you can and we'll try to help.

[[Director] Joseph B]

I'd say that booth are wrong (in my opinion).
1. Decide what you want to do tech wise.
2. See what it would cost to buy the equipment.
3. See what it would cost to have the install done (at least the stuff you don't/can't do yourself).
4. Add 10% for "unknown" incidentals.
5. Don't forget software for the computer too.

That's about how much it will cost.

[Gracetech]

I have been a consultant for many years and the budget is whatever you can pull from the grips of the building committee. It's a sad thing that this is just a fact of life but my job is to convey to the board that the more they can offer up the better the outcome. I don't use a hard and fast rule for setting a budget but rather look at the room and come up with three options for price/performance delivery. I usually have a cheap/just get buy option, a mid price/everything you need, and then the upper end/which is the mid plus everything you could want(note that this isn't a "dream system"). This allows them to see how the systems scale in price. 9 out of 10 times they chose the mid level with a few add on tweaks and every so often they choose the high end model and i get to show them wonders they never thought imaginable. At any rate the idea is to get their heads off of the numbers and more on to the solution and that's the key. Be warned that you will run into resistance. It seems perfectly fine to pay 120k on a/c but spending 10k on all the tech gear is ridiculous. You have to have someone to fight the fight for you and the more knowledgeable the better. This is where i tell you to hire a freelance consultant and save yourself some grief. Let a consultant take on the challenge of getting the church to understand what they need and how to integrate a solution. I've seen guys leave churches because of building campaigns. If you feel up to the task of getting the numbers needed for this task then we can help you chose and plot your solution course(with the proper information).

It's always fun to build just make sure you don't get burned out since the building is just the first part.

crt

[kbob]

Among the items to consider-separate phase just for the tech gear, with nothing else sharing that phase. And a second phase just for lighting-seriously, lights eat power like nothing else. The cost of pulling wire during construction is trivial versus the cost afterwards, so pull way more than you could possibly need. And don't skimp on pro installs for lighting, and anything else suspended, including projectors speakers, etc. Safety first!

[cmchamp]

Acoustics - Acoustics - Acoustics. Slap-back is a relatively easy issue to correct, however low frequency correction in that room after the fact will be costly. You will also need to address the acoustical nightmares that a room that size will create if not designed correctly with finish materials and other methods.
Where will the HVAC handlers be?
Create a list of ministries and tasks the technology team (AV) wishes to accomplish in this new room, even if it is planning 3-5-10 years down the road.
Plan for the future as best possible now to save time and $$ later.
C.

[rjwalker]

Thanks for all of the responses and thoughts. I'll postmore details later.

[katanna]

We are currently building a new campus, and will have a new sanctuary with just over 500 seats.

I don't have the authority to say what our budget is, but I can say this: we were originally given a budget for audio/video/lights, then after we met with a consultant, we quickly realized that the budget that we had was way too small. We have since doubled our budget, and we are still getting only the necessities with a few luxuries. Thankfully, after our first meeting, our pastor saw that we were between a rock and a hard place, and decided that he would do whatever it took to get our budget up.

As far as your "rule of thumbs", we are less than 10% of our overall budget, and no where near the $800/seat. It would be nice if we were near those numbers (I love toys), but what we have will adequately get the job done.

BTW, you last talked about this in December. How are things going?

Matthew

[jonack]

Congrats on the new building, hopefully all is going well as katanna noticed you haven't posted since December. I agree with Gracetech, a consultant will save you a lot of grief, one thing to add to that is also to have someone who is on the upper levels of leadership at your church to be on your side as well. Sometimes battling for a little more money will save you lots of later grief. Also, don't be afraid to put it all in writing and give a copy of ways the church can save money by doing some of the work yourselves, or at least helping the contractors out (specifically building the platform, pulling some of the cabling, tuning projectors or installing pieces of equipment in racks). Doing a 5 year plan will help them to see what they should install in the future. I would say that if they cut you off at the knee caps, to tell them that you get what you pay for in the tech world. Purchase junk, get junk, no acoustical treatment in the room=bad audio, and don't do it in a mean or "I told you so way", but in a way that conveys your concerns about the Gospel being spread! Good luck with everything!

[tedanderson]

Like others have said, without knowing the desired result, it's difficult to suggest a budget.

It has been my experience that people who don't understand this stuff fail to count the costs. They always get the information on what the bottom line PRICE will be but they never count the cost in terms of electrical requirements, things that can interfere with the equipment, (e.g. air handlers as mentioned previously), and upgrades to the system that have to be made as you figure out some of your other needs along the way.

I may learn otherwise one day but I have yet to see a perfect "textbook" installation that works the first time. Granted a good consultant who knows what he is selling and how to make it work properly can help lessen the growing pains associated with putting a new system into a new building but for the most part you should be prepared to make additional upgrades and adjustments to both the building and the system as your organization begins to use it.

And I can say from experience that it is tough to ask them for more money than what was originally anticiapted let alone telling them that it's going to continue to cost them something every few months but unfortunately it is human nature to be freer about spending money on the things that we see than we are on the things that we can't see.

[cmchamp]

I'm just finishing up an install in Coldwater, MI. Would be glad to show anyone who wants to see. Point offered - sit down and discuss everything with either the DB firm or a desing consultant. I am not 100% done yet, the client wanted to use the building for a service on 3/9, and I was bombarded with interconnect issues the morning of the service. Good thing I was there at 8am for a 10:30 service because the majority of that time was spent making custom interconnect cables for their DVD recorder, video cameras etc. that no one had informed me about - even though I had asked and asked and asked.
Even if it's yourself and a member or two of your team, sit down and describe what the technical aspects of the building use will entail. How deap do you want to use video presently, in the future, IMAG, what type of worship style do you have, SPL levels, etc. for the sound system performance specification, acoustical nightmares of a gynmatoria (especially at the low end).
C.