Getting paid...

[AustinChurch]

Hello there!

I’m new on here; totally wish I would have found this site sooner. I know the big question is always “Should I be getting paid?” or “How much should I be getting paid?” So I ask both of these questions. Never mind, just the first one, I already believe that we should be getting paid for what we do.

Some background: In March of 2008 we started a Multi-media Ministry at my church. We started out with a crappy sound system, 3 crappy handy cams, a table in the back of the sanctuary with a very crappy sound board and a video board that we still use. In the beginning a lot of the time it would be just me and my sister (during one service) and she would work the sound and I would work all three cameras and the video switcher (two other people did it for the second service). It was like that for a long time. Well it’s been almost 2 years and a few of us have been there this entire time with no pay but we have never complained about it. I always saw it as experience and if I’m going to be a church then I may as well do what I like. Plus, since I’ve been out of a steady job for over a year I really don’t give tides so I say this is my tides. We have seriously advanced since then; we have screens where the congregation can see what we’re recording and the words to songs. We now use 3 Panasonic ag-hvx200a cameras, a brand new great sound system and board, tv’s around church, and a few other new things all in our somewhat new sound booth.

We usually use about 5-6 people each Sunday (we have one service now) but more times then a few it’s only about 3 of us working because not everyone is 100% committed, not even 80%. My primary job is Director which I do every other Sunday and fill in whenever the other Director isn’t there but when he is I work a camera. I work the video board, and the camera that’s in the booth, not to mention help set up and break down equipment. It takes about 4 hours every Sunday. Also we are going to start producing commercials to be aired on the local station here in Austin and a live feed on the internet.

We use Easy Worship and we record CD’s and DVD’s. We do no editing when it comes to services so everything is a live feed and we then sell them afterwards. Any time we have a program we do the exact same thing and we seem to have a program about every month.

We have slowly been growing as a ministry and a church but we haven’t really had the budget to be paid. My thoughts are that maybe by this summer we could start being paid if we downsize the ministry and use only the ones that really put forth efforts (3 or 4 of us), and then be paid about $150-$175 per service, plus be paid about the same for programs and a flat fee for productions such as commercials and anything else. I believe our musicians are paid between $150 and $200 per service so I don’t think we’d be asking too much. I think that if we make a commitment to make the church X amount of dollars per year then this may help. Everyone there loves what we are doing, they especially love seeing me doing it because I’m a female and I don’t think they would have a problem with us being paid.

Am I asking for too much? Should we try to reach certain goals (money wise) before we ask to be paid? Any ideas or opinions?

Thanks.

[ppr7997]

Your church uses paid musicans? If you approach the subject of pay, I would check into this and get exact figures. Paid musicians, even for the largest of churches is a rarity and even then only for special events. Usually, I say its all or nothing. If you pay the "tech team", then musicians, ushers, nursery, etc. will expect to be paid also. Us church techies likely put in the most hours of any volunteer team by far -- I won't dispute that. But, there is something to be said about having a team of commited volunteers who can manage themselves and keep the ship sailing.

Depending on the size of your church, a part-time or full-time "media director" or "tech director" may be needed. That person can be in charge of organizing and delegating to volunteer teams and take care of all the equipment, etc. beyond what is required of a typical Sunday.

As an aside, special events are just that. They are "special", so weddings, funerals, etc. should all come with some type of fee structure for building use, setup and payment of said technicians. Our church does $15/hour, which is nice for those all-day concerts and the like.

[ppr7997]

Originally Posted by AustinChurch

Hello there!

We use Easy Worship and we record CD’s and DVD’s. We do no editing when it comes to services so everything is a live feed and we then sell them afterwards. Any time we have a program we do the exact same thing and we seem to have a program about every month.

Be careful about how you do this. Unless all your music is considered Public Domain, there are serious copyright issues with duplicating your entire services to DVD and distributing them -- regardless if you collect money or not.

Internet streaming has some different rules, which I won't get into here. But, as a general rule you cannot distribute those recordings for public use.

[Paris MkVI]

What ppr7997 said.

You may well want to have leadership visit Christian Copyright Solutions if they have not already done so (http://www.copyrightsolver.com/).

Let me ask you this, though. As the church has grown, are you receiving leadership vision and planning for the growth of media ministry, or is it "just happening" on its own?

Regarding pay, many churches (mine is one) pay servant leaders as quarter-timers or half-timers (I am a quarter-timer). This also means we pick up some of the administrative and logistical load from the leadership that provides us with covering.

In a healthy environment, it brings both authority and responsibility to that individual.

[Steven]

Just a couple of quick thoughts:

Is your church able to pay? If they can't afford to pay for help, it's no use asking for it. It will just make the leadership feel bad.

Try to avoid the "they get paid so should we" argument. As someone who hears it often, it gets old and rarely ever works out (at least with me!). Often, those making the request don't take into account all that goes into the "other guy's" job.

The best approach I've found (the one that is most successful with me) is something like this: "I've been putting in an average of X hours per week. I'm here X days out of the week. Sometimes it even costs me X dollars to purchase X supplies. I've been doing this for X weeks/months/etc. It's getting to be a bit much for me and my family, and I might have to cut down my hours and possibly look for a part time job to help cover my expenses. If there's some way we can work something out, that would be great, but if not, I will still try my best to keep serving." It only works when one really means it, though.

[Pastor Ryan]

also with regards to tithing (as you called tides)

Any form of income at all that you receive you should give 10% to your church, and not translate volunteer hours to equate tithing.

Tithing on your gross income not your net is how tithes should be done as well.

I see that as one of the most important things you can do right now, if you have income in your household and you are not tithing, really don't expect God to give you any kind of financial blessing, especially with a job from the church you aren't tithing to.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I see tithing as a black and white issue.

now if you have absolutely no income, at all, in your house I understand you having nothing tithe, but if you have any money, even if it is unemployment or disability, or whatever you should give 10% of it to your church.

[tedanderson]

I think that if we make a commitment to make the church X amount of dollars per year then this may help. Am I asking for too much? Should we try to reach certain goals (money wise) before we ask to be paid?

Did you plan on making the church money through CD/DVD sales or did you have some other method in mind?

I would suggest that you ask without any contingencies. Ask to be compensated and tell them what you would like to make every Sunday. They very well may say "No" but that is not a good reason not to ask. A response of "No" today does not necessarily mean that the answer is "No" indefinitely. I can recall many situations in my life where I had been passed up for the opportunities that I really wanted only because I didn't ask for them. How did my co-worker get assigned to the special project in the office that I was anticipating? He asked about it before the boss had a chance to offer it to someone else. And that is the approach that you will have to take.

One thing to also know about tech ministry is that even though the church may not be willing to pay you, you can still use your skills and abilities to create your own employment. Perhaps the church would be willing to work out a deal with you where you control the CD and DVD sales and give the church a percentage. If not, I would suggest creating a contract or policy of sorts where you are compensated for your services when doing extra curricular activities outside of the normal service schedule. For instance, weddings, funerals, social gatherings, etc. should require compensation from the family hosting the event if they are in need of your services. We should be willing and able to serve in church as part of our contribution to the kingdom, however, if someone wants to have their birthday party at the church and they need someone to operate a projector and slide show, the people throwing the party should not have the expectation that they can have it done at no cost.

Usually, I say its all or nothing. If you pay the "tech team", then musicians, ushers, nursery, etc. will expect to be paid also. Us church techies likely put in the most hours of any volunteer team by far -- I won't dispute that. But, there is something to be said about having a team of commited volunteers who can manage themselves and keep the ship sailing.

That is even more of a reason to pay the techs. Not to minimize the importance of the other ministries and their tasks but what we do is a specialized skill. I tread lightly whenever I make this statement but I think that greeting, ushering, working in the nursery, prayer team, etc. are jobs that just about anyone can do with a minimal amount of formal experience and instruction. We are the first to arrive and the last leave on Sunday. And what we learn takes WEEKS and MONTHS of practical hands-on training. Every time you replace a media worker, you have to restart the learning curve.

But to give you insight on how we are seen from the other side of the fence, the first thing that is asked is "why should we pay for poor work performace". Secondly, they suggest, "If we are going to pay for and A/V team, why not just hire professionals? At least we know the job is going to be done right." And third, they think, "What they do doesn't require any real effort. If I knew how to do it, I would do it too."

[zactommo]

I'm not sure if I agree with your musicians getting paid; does that mean that your welcomers, cleaners, or any other type of servants should get paid also? Or are the musicians given preference because they have an "up the front" type of service.

I'm of the view that service to the church and the community is an intergal part of being a chrisitian, and people who choose to be consumers of church, and don't give anything back to the church, are 1) depriving their church 2) mising out on some of God's blessing for them, and fulfilment in their lives. So that being said, I don't think your whole team should be getting paid. Just because there type of service is specialised, doesn't make it worth any more, or any less than others who serve in the church.

Now as for you, as the team leader, it really comes down to how many hours you are putting in; mainly hours outside of a sunday service. If you were regularly putting in an excess of 5-10 hours outside of sunday service, then you may deserve to get paid. But remember, most people I know who are part timers for churchs work a lot more hours than what they are paid for, so I wouldn't be expecting to get paid for every single hour you work.

[Steven]

Another point I feel I should make is this:

At our church, we have a saying "Don't pay for something you can get for free."

Why would a church pay for something that is already being done for free? If you approach your leadership and ask for pay, you had best think of additional things you will be able to do because of your employment, else they'll likely turn you down.

We try to make it a habit to not hire people to do the exact same thing they're already volunteering for. That's not wise stewardship.

[AustinChurch]

Thanks for all the comments.

Let me make sure I address everything, firstly let me start with the TITHING thing. 10% of an income of $0 equals $0. No disability or unemployment, we were just that group of young adults that got caught in-betweens the school thing and the work thing because of the recession. Luckily I did just find a part-time though.

Yes we use paid musicians, actually the head musician gets paid more then I stated before. I am one of the leaders of this ministry and was just recently asked to be co-chair. A couple of us have really taken charge of this and we are the reason why it’s growing and we are now planning for bigger accomplishments for 2010. We would never use the “they’re getting paid so w should be getting paid” thing because it’s bogus. They would love to pay us, they have said this before but it hasn’t been in the budget, but we have not been on this issue in a while so I’m not sure what the budget is anymore. I just feel that if we downsize this ministry and use only the committed (3 or 4 of us), do everything they want from us and put in those crazy hours we should be getting paid. I do V.O’s for our announcements; they want commercials/infomercials to be played on our local station, internet live stream, plus DVD’s and CD’s. My Pastor actually wants us to kind of make a business out of it and do weddings, special events, events for other churches as well. So this upcoming year will most likely be really busy for us. We can’t work at the Church for 15, 20 plus hours a week without pay because that will take away from the jobs we do have that pay us to be there.

There are people from other churches or denominations that don’t agree with the way we do things such as paying musicians or the pastor and even the switching of our pastors but we have to do things they way we feel is best for us. I do agree that other people in the church should be paid such as the office help who put in so many hours. The thing with that is, they’re retired and they do not want to affect their retirement checks lol. We do plan on making the church money through DVD’s and CD’s sells, but also with the commercials and live stream. We feel that by getting our church name out there we can grow our congregation and get the word to so many more people.

Not sure if I missed anything. But I would love to know more about the copyright thing with our DVD’s, CD’s and live stream. Is that another fourm?

[Paris MkVI]

Yes indeed, you will find a "Copyright Issues" section under "Teams and Leadership".

I want to share an observation. I may be reading entirely too much into this. But I have a sense of something very subtle, yet important.

Let me preface this observation with my understanding that this kind of written communication is at best, incomplete. A lot of detail and nuance can be lost in the written word in these discussions. So if need be, take this with a grain of salt.

In your last post, there's a fair amount of "we" and "they". I get a slight sense of some sort of tension developing between you and leadership. I encourage you, if this is at all (even a little bit) the case, to go before the Lord prayerfully. Ask Him to help you turn "we" and "them" into "us".

I am glad you are passionate about your desire to serve God!

We do not all have to be the same, look the same, or sound the same. That would be uniformity. God does not call us to that, but He does call us to be in unity with one another (Romans 15:5, Ephesians 4:13).

If you don't feel intimately familiar with the vision and mission God has placed on your pastor for your church, ask him. Use that as the foundation from which all other conversations are built upon. Sometimes refocusing on mission and vision brings a clarity to other, seemingly unrelated discussions. It does promote unity in purpose and spirit, and ministry is blessed as a result.

I respect your desire to grow your church family. But I have great news! Jesus teaches that his "yoke is easy and burden light" [Matthew 11:30]. He also reassured us He would build His church [Matthew 16:1]. So Jesus has already promised to do the heavy lifting of changing hearts and rebuilding lives. Jesus will do his part. We need only be attentive to the specific vision and mission He gives us.

Again, let me say, if I have misunderstood or misread anything, please forgive me my misunderstanding, and know I offer this only in the humblest voice of encouragement, one Christian warrior to another.

I am glad you are passionate about your desire to serve God!

[CopyrightSolver]

Originally Posted by AustinChurch

Not sure if I missed anything. But I would love to know more about the copyright thing with our DVD’s, CD’s and live stream. Is that another fourm?

Let me see if I can provide some basic info:

DVDs - If you are making DVDs of your song performances, you need a Synchronization License for each song on the DVD. You need to contact the songs' owners to get these licenses or you can use one of two services from Christian Copyright Solutions. The VIDEOready service has several hundred songs available for on-demand licensing for video synchronization. If you need songs that are not in the VIDEOready service catalog, you can use the PERMISSIONSplus service to get those licenses cleared.

CDs - If you are making a CD of your song performances, you need a Mechanical License for each song on the CD. You need to contact the songs' owners to get these licenses or you can use the PERMISSIONSplus service from Christian Copyright Solutions. There is a "CDready" plan that allows you to outsource the license clearance process to professionals.

Web streaming - If you are going to stream your song performances on the web, you need an Internet Performance License. Christian Copyright Solutions offers the only Internet Performance License for churches and it is called WORSHIPcast.

Hope that helps. Check out the web sites in my signature below for more info.