Rider Friendly (somewhat) Moving Heads

[Les]

Sorry Mike, thanks to you too! My post shows up after yours, but we must have been typing at the same time so I didn't see yours until after I posted mine.

As far as color from the front. I don't do color washes from the front, but I typically have color. Depending on if I want a warm or cool front light I'll use R02 or R51, typically R51. But, I agree with the sentiment on front color washes.

Movers from the front I like/dislike. We might just throw up the trackspots we have on the front truss (well, it will be a pipe, but we'll call it truss ).

I have found them to be useful but if I only have a few I would put them rear and then any "extras" in the front or floor. But, I agree with James' sentiment about the floor lights getting damaged with all the in/out so I don't think I'll be putting any there.

Thanks for all the advice.

[Esoteric]

Yes, I would never put units on the floor directly. Now on tables/roadcases/etc sure.

But ever tables.

You know I use a bit of toning color from the front if I need it for video, but I have found that live, no color (which as my profs always reminded me is a color) worked pretty well.

Mike

[Esoteric]

Also, it doesn't hurt to add the extra layer of movers from the front but I only do it...

1. After I have plenty of movers overhead and on the back truss and
2. I use it far less often because I like to use projection.

When I did use it, I only used units with rotating gobos.

Mike

[Esoteric]

I love the THtG. Actually now that I know you are doing that, I would say that is going to be your centerpiece so I would make sure your lighting supplements it without overwhelming it. Another reason to avoid PARs.

With a huge projection, I would only use 8-12 PARs (preferably LED) and 4-6 moving lights and call it a day.

I am actually installing a similar system in a couple of weeks.

Mike

[james tucker]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

Some good stuff and some not so good stuff going on in this thread.

I would caution against traditional PAR rigs. The power requirements are just too great. Most places are not going to drop the coin that you would have to in order to put in a dimmer rack worth having (like even a small Sensor Rack). Plus, why stick yourself with static colors? LED PAR rigs work, just make sure you get good, bright units (wink wink).

In addition, front color is really a waste of time. I haven't hung colored front light in...... Years.

The Techno suggestion is great, but for the cost of 32 500W PARs ($12k-$14k) you can get a great LED PAR rig. Avoid scanners like the PLAGUE.

Again, front color is a waste. In a good design you don't need it. Turn them around. For lie music 90% of your lighting should be from the back.

Don't waste your time on PARs for front light. I always cringe when I see PAR front light (except MAYBE in studio applications and even then I prefer Fresnels). Get 3-4 Source4 Jrs (for such small throws) and be able to actually have control over your front light.

Movers on your front truss are also a waste of time. You can always use movers from the back truss to shine in the audience if you want a "dance party" look. Again, 90% or more of your lighting needs to be back light.

I agree lots of truss and lights look good for rock shows, but LED PARs give you so many more color options and they look so much cooler. And busking LED units is no harder than busking traditional PARs as long as you do your homework before hand.

Always get a touch screen for MagicQ, a wing is nice, but not really necessary. I would not go for a playback wing though, I would save and get a programming/playback wing.


Mike

I've been working with my venue for 13 years, never once has a fellow lighting designer walked into my doors and "imparted" that much knowledge on why front color is stupid and par cans are stupid.... I will take my Par cans, dimmer packs, and front color any day...

Thank you for reminding me as to why I don't post much around here anymore.

[Esoteric]

Let me be the first to say publicly that if you found my post a bit.... Off putting I apologize. I am a plain spoken person and tact is not really a strong suit of mine (especially at 11:00pm after a long day onsite). But that is just an excuse for my unChristlike behavior.

I am sorry and I ask your forgiveness as a brother in Christ.

All that being said if I were Kristian's lighting guy and come to your venue I would insist on a rehang. I know you would say no, but I would insist anyway.

Mike

[Les]

Ok, so I think we have a working plan now.

James, the more I read your post and about your venue the more I realized it's a lot of what I would do and that venue is doing some of the things we want to do.

I liked some of your upcoming bands too! Oh Sleeper will be a great show, I’ve always like them in concert.

My initial instincts (and probably Wayne's as well) is to do a 120k Par Rig on an upstage and downstage truss. Obviously, we wouldn't literally do 120k, we'd scale it to the venue size, but that gives you the idea. Put in a good ol' par rig. Then supplement with rentals of movers when necessary.

We would just make sure the infrastructure is in place (power, DMX, and hang points in the right places).

In fact, we did a gig recently where the stage lighting (and this is a large stage) was basically 4 LED Pars and 3 Trackspots. We had a TON of compliments on that. I had 2 people that didn't believe those intelligent lights were made around 1993 (one of them was a red board even).

So, you can still do cool things with older tech.[

The infrastructure to build upon will be put in regardless, so that cost is a given independent on what we do down the road. So, hang points, conduit, power, DMX, etc will all be in place.

Now, depending on budget for tech (which itself is dependent upon other building costs), I have a couple of different thoughts.

The first option if there is no budget, which isn’t likely (remember infrastructure is a given in all options) would be 1 or 2 dozen Pars on the rear truss (also remember, truss=pipe ) for color washes, another 6-12 on the front truss along with 4 Altman 6x12's (already on hand). We'll throw up 3 trackspots over the stage as well.

All the conventionals will be run from a 2 scene preset 24ch console (old school way) with a separate Magic Q setup for the trackspots. When someone good, like Wayne, comes in he'll run the whole rig from Magic Q. For local band nights or whatever we’ll just have the old standard light board in place.

Also, James, I know exactly what you mean about those halogen worklights! Drives me crazy. Those are a “fire hazard” and not allowed when I’m on duty… haha take that evil halogen worklight!

All of that is on hand, and honestly that will give me a better lighting rig than any place else around here anyway and would certainly satisfy any of the locals and even most small regionals in the area. Cost is negligible on this rig since that’s all sitting in the warehouses.

If I have a smaller budget my next upgrade to that would be to add 4 Spots (right now either the Martin Mac 250 or the Elation 5R).

And next would be to add a dozen LED pars and remove the traditional pars from the rear truss.

Then, if I get the full budget the rig would probably be a dozen LED pars for backlights, a handful of Leko’s (and a few pars) for front light, and 4 Spots and 4 Wash moving heads.

With the THTG. We won’t use that every time. For locals, small events, or outside rentals we’ll have another SD projector hung that will just project on the center. That one will just be a little 3500 or so Lumen XGA projector. It would be fine for lyrics, showing a video, or something and then saves the lamps and wear and tear on the HD equipment.

[james tucker]

Hey Les.... its been quite some time, how is your venue doing?