Advice for replacing cameras

[kcsnow]

Hey guys - looks like I'm in the same boat as a lot of those asking for advice here! I know a fair amount about video, mostly on the post-production side...but now I've ended up in charge of the video department all together.

I'm a bit frustrated with the quality of our IMAG camera situation (which is also streamed online and recorded for on-demand) and would like some advice on replacing the cameras with something maybe a step up.

I currently have 3 older (but decent) cameras (Ilcegami HC0200, Panasonic 200CLE, and a JVC with the model number unreadable...yep, we have 3 different models - don't ask me why because I have no idea!) All 3 cameras come back to our switcher through composite BNC feeds, and all 3 can only do 4:3 ratio.

I would like to upgrade the cameras and feed them back to a newer switcher (a Kraimer with component inputs and outputs) and move to 16:9. As best that I can tell, alll of the production pieces from switcher to projector and recording can be moved to component easily, just need to choose the right camera for the solution.

I'm looking for something that does well in less than bright lighting with at least component output (I don't think I can afford to move to better). I have about 15k to spend on the 3 cameras, video monitors for the operators, and the tripod arm zoom/focus control (already have nice tripods).

From reading the boards here it looks like the Canon HX-AIS is a favorite in general - will that perform well for IMAG production? The Sony PMW-EX1R looked good to me as well, but the zoom is 14x instead of 20x.

How would I go about gen-locking the cameras recommended? I'm pretty clueless there, I'm used to the run and gun shoots!

Would anyone be willing to share thoughts, experiences or other advice on my situation? I would appreciate it tremendously - I feel overwhelmed and cross-eyed in reading through camera spec sheets!

Kenny Snow
Community Bible Church
Stockbridge, GA

[zactommo]

Couple of questions on your current setup. What sort of switcher do you currently have? Is it a broadcast production switcher, or one similar to a kramer. The rack-mounted, AV installation type?
Also, what sort of lenses do your current cameras have? Chances are they're canon or fujinon, and hopefully they are one or the other, not a mix of both. It means that you can re-use you zoom and focus controllers, which will save you some money.

If low light performance is an issue, and you've only got 15k all up to spend, i'd be looking for some used 2/3inch broadcast quality SD cameras. Something like a Sony DSR-500, DSR-570, DXC-35WSP, or the panasonic or hitachi or Ikegami equivilent of those (don't know model numbers off the top of my head)

You will be shocked between the difference in light sensitivity between your current cameras and a 1/3 CCD HD camera (I just brought a JVC HD-100, so I know the feeling) The 2/3 SD cameras are a whole different league in light sensitivity. Best place to pickup the above stated cameras would probably be from a broadcaster who's upgrading to HD, and getting rid of old gear. Then hopefully you can pickup the whole camera chain, including the monitor, camera control base station, Multipin or Triax cable.

Depending on what sort of switcher your current one is, a kramer may not be the best option for you. Canon A1S is also not genlockable, so if you were running a system that requires genlock, then that camera is out!

[kcsnow]

I'm pretty sure at least one of the lenses is Fujinon, that sounds right. I know they are 20x lenses.
I'm not sure on the switcher - I know it's a Sony, and a pretty nice one with tally light functions and such. I'll get the model number tomorrow. I do know it only allows for composite in, instead of component.

Does it say somewhere on the camera what size the CCD sensor is?
I've been checking into getting the old gear, that's actually what got me looking at new stuff - I was offered Used Canon XL2's for 3500 - $200 more than what they go for new on BH. I figured, man, if I can just spend a little more maybe I can get a better camera - you know?

Do you know of a "here's what to look for in IMAG cameras" guide anywhere? lol.

[zactommo]

Sensor size should be in the cameras documentation somewhere, and if your looking at a new camera, under the specifications page on the manufactures website.

Here's a basic outline of light sensitivity with cameras. There are two thing that come into play. 1) Sensor size. The bigger the sensor, the more light it can capture. Prosumer cameras such as the XL1, XL2, PD170 DVX100 etc usually have 1/3 sensors (thats 1/3 of an inch) Then the middle bracket is 1/2 sensors, such as the Sony EX1, EX3, then the norm for broadcast quality cameras, is 2/3inch sensor, such as your current camera.
2) Sensor resolution. A higher resolution sensor equals less light sensitivity. Because each pixel captures less light, because the pixels are smaller, because there are more of them on the sensor. So a 2/3 inch SD camera will have better light sensitivity than a 2/3 HD camera.

I'd probably stay away from the XL2. They're asking too much, it doesn't have a manual lens, doesn't have genlock, doesn't support a studio viewfinder (that I know of)

Have you thought about the cost of the switcher upgrade? Going from a sony production switcher to a kramer is going to be a serious downgrade in terms of usability, and function. You really need a component production switcher. Once again, a broadcaster that is upgrading is probably going to be the best place to get one of these. Maybe you could get camera chains and a switcher all from the same place?

[waynehoskins]

The first thing that comes to mind for a component production switcher is a Grass 100CV. It's not new or fancy -- no onboard DVE or DPM, for example -- but pretty solid. Its newer brother is the 110CV, and then there are even higher-end options. Echolab and Ross are two other manufacturers I'd look at.

Either way, the improvement with component video is chiefly in color bandwidth, color resolution, as well as only having to time sync signals and not having to screw with subcarrier phase. It's pretty, it's nice, but it's not a huge step up. My thought is that the most useful improvement in infrastructure, since you'd have to replace most things anyway to go component, would be a move to SDI. That makes you a lot more forward-compatible with the world, and to interface with analog gear you could add a tray of encoders and decoders. Image quality is the same as component video.

At my church we have some old Ickys that came out of sports service years ago, old 2/3" CCD analog beasts. Image quality is beautiful, and NTSC composite doesn't degrade it badly. Component would be nicer, but not enough for me to justify the cost, effort, and space of upgrading.

[kcsnow]

Wow, ok - thanks for all of the advice guys. Looks like back to the drawing board for me

I did look into SDI at first, but it seemed like any decent camera with SDI as a native output was way out of my range - and then I would have to upgrade the switcher as well...maybe I just need to save up with that in mind. Problem is, "saving up" means those funds will get used in the next big need around the campus. Not saying that negatively at all, it's just the way things currently go

So maybe you guys can work better this way. I'll list my current equipment, and maybe you can suggest an upgrade path? I'd at least like to achieve 16:9 if possible, and matching cameras is a big goal.

Cameras:
1. Panasonic 200CLE Model WV-F200 with Fujinon 18x lens. Tripod zoom controls, but no focus controller. Connected to a Panasonic CCU in the booth, which doesn't work extremely well, it is very "touchy". This camera is the one I really don't like, the picture is always over contrasted and grainy, and I can't seem to correct for it. No luck finding a manual for it or the CCU.

2. 2x Ikegami HC-200, one is out of commision as it does not send display to the viewfinder (viewfinder works fine). Has Canon 12x lens with Zoom/Focus controls on tripod arms. Connected to Ikegami MA-200 CCUs in the booth. The picture from these is pretty good...at least from the one that is working. No luck finding manuals so far.

Switcher:
Sony SEG-2000A - I have a link for that manual, but I guess I'm not allowed to post that yet. The curse of being a newbie

What do you guys think some options are?
Thanks so much for your input and time...I would have wasted a lot of money without the advice. I really appreciate it.

[zactommo]

So your main goals are matching cameras and 16:9?

That being the goal, i'd go back to my previous suggestion. Find some used broadcast quality 16:9 camera chains. The CCU Base stations for these cameras have both component and composite out, so you can use composite with your current switcher, and if a cheap component switcher comes along, then you could easily upgrade.

If you could find some relatively new, but SD 16:9 camera chains, you may find that they have SDI option too, so SDI is not out of the picture yet, but a SDI switcher is going to be a bit more costly.