Starter Packing for stage lighting

[adessmith]

Our church (contemporary style) is moving into a new building. We have thought about stage lighting in the past, but the low ceilings made it difficult to do much. All we did at the old building was some track lights in front of the stage area with some par 30 halogen bulbs. We would kill about half the lights in the sanctuary and light up the stage with yellow flood lights. (better than nothing)

The new building has higher ceilings, and I'm wondering how expensive it would be to get our feet wet with something basic.

I was looking at a package deals which had 8 par46 cans with a basic controller, cables, gels, etc... It comes with portable stands, but I think we could rig something up overhead so we didnt have to use the stands. These packages ranged between $400-$600 and I was thinking something like this would be better than nothing, but I dont know anything about lighting except what I see other places.

I think our average attendance is less than 100 people.

I think the stage there is somewhere around 20x20. Do you think this would would be enough light to start with? The ceilings are pretty high (renting a scissor lift to install the projector and run a snake overhead, and we could do this at the same time) so how low would we need to bring them down to be effective.
If we only get a budget of a few hundred dollars, is this something we should even consider? Otherwise, we are going to be using some florescent lights overhead which are already there

[adessmith]

oops... I didnt realize I posted in "house lighting" I cant find a way to move this.
I could copy and paste it to a new thread, but I cant figure out how to delete this one....

[RickR]

I find the package deals deceptive. If you are really going to use all the parts and you can't afford anything more, then OK. Better than nothing, but not by much. But once you leave something out, or need even a little better equipment, you generally find that you've wasted money.

I sing this song a lot: Find your local theatrical dealer. They can visit your space, look at drawings and give you accurate advice on the kinds and number of lights. They can offer you more options and answer questions now, and for years to come!

The second best bit of advice: Plan to expand! Maybe not this year or the next, but it will happen. Buy a better than minimum controller because you'll have to throw out the old one. Have the electrician install 2 plugs/circuits where ever he does one. It costs very little now. Buy fewer but more powerful lights. You can add more lights but you would have to double up to make weak ones do a bigger job. As you grow and define what you really want you should be able to change any part to get there.

Read up on lighting: http://www.mainstage.com/PDFs/mts_lighttheories.pdf
This is the shortest but most complete description of stage lighting I have ever found. I also have a similar old one from L&E, they no longer post it on the net. I can send it via private email, I just don't want to post it publicly. It covers more of WHY & WHEN to use stage techniques in a church. It's not all about rock & roll...

Anybody else have any good learning resources?

[Esoteric]

I am posting articles on stage lighting at the blog for my website.

www.esotericvisions.com

You do not want PAR46 from that range.

My honest advice to you is save your money right now until you have at least $2500-$3000 and then you can make a decent start.

Mike

[adessmith]

The "new building" is still a pretty small space, but we'd like to do something to test the waters with a lighting system as this is still a temporary (rented) space. We have land and our long term goal is to build on it. Hopefully we can spend a little cash right now just to see if its something we want to invest money in later down the road when we make the big move. We dont want anything fancy... Just throw a little color on the stage for ambiance and atmosphere.

I feel fairly certain that, if we decide its something we want, we'll probably budget in lighting when we build in the future. I'm thinking we probably wouldnt re-use this stuff in the big sanctuary, but instead we could use it as a portable system for outdoor night time events.

I just know our church isnt going to be able to justify going from 4 halogen flood bulbs, to a $2,000 -$3,000 budget (which, I believe, is about all we have in the bank account right now) for lighting without some sort of stepping stone inbetween to make sure we even want to mess with lighting at all.

No exageration... but if we dont do one of those lighting packages, we'll end up spending around $200 on a couple track lighitng systems similar to these: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...22-147475852-2 (with some colored halogen bulbs) We just found out the existing track lights are considered a "perminant" fixture, and according to our lease we cant take them down when we leave the buidling.

I just need to know if its worth spending twice as much on something like this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...01701000000000 or if we should go with the track lights with colored bulbs for around half the price.

I think my proposal is REALLY going to be pushing it (in terms of money), however I see ANYTHING as an upgrade, and without some sort of small step in the right direction lighting is always going to be overlooked.

[adessmith]

Another thought would be, just get some decent Cans, Bulbs, and Gels.
Wire them straight with a switch, and add the controllers and stuff later.
This might be a happy medium which would be better than the track lights, but still upgradeable. However, I think by the time you buy all the individual items you can almost get a package with the stands (which we wont use) and a cheap controller, relay packs, etc... and it really wouldnt cost anything extra.

[Esoteric]

If that is the situation I would say go with the track lighting.

[waynehoskins]

I agree with Mike. Any money you put into an intermediate system will be money you can't put towards a real system done right later; you'll just be throwing it away in the long run.

[ptechie]

Can you post a photo of the space? I think that two to four used Altman 360Q or even a couple of SourceFours would give you a better look than the track lights and would fit in if you planned on expanding. I agree with skipping the cheap stuff. You'll only be stuck with a bunch stuff that never really worked the way you wished.

[adessmith]

I believe the ceilings will be too high to do track lighting....


I think we are going to give up on the idea of any stage lighting at all forever, and just allow the stage to be lit the same way as the rest of the space. (I believe it is high bay HID lights) A lighting budget just isnt within the scope of our church.


I realize the "Pro mentality" here, but I didnt realize it was impossible to do ANYTHING with stage lighting for under $1,000 that wasnt junk that is just gonna fall apart. All we wanted was a little wash of color on the stage, we dont want extravagant flasy "Rock Concert" lighting. It sounds like anything less than that is inadequate and unreliable.
I figured lighting systems would be scalable, just as sound stuff is (we have no problems with the "basic" sound system we have). I guess with lighting its "go big or go home". There is no such thing as small scale (or small scale is what I'm considering elaborate, and what we need is "ultra small scale" which doesnt exist...)

[cmchamp]

adessmith
Unlike analog sound gear, where one "cheap" piece can be upgraded in the future without causing a crash amongst the rest, lighting is a bit different, especially where controllers and dimmer packs are concerned.
Here is an option, should your youth have a separate space and when funds were available in the future to upgrade the sanctuary.
Look at the dimmer packs, and controllers from American DJ, but be prepared that the dimmer packs will be noisy and depending on the leg the electric is on, they may interfere with the sound system.
Then, if/when the church decides to install the appropriate product, the "cheap" stuff could be put to use with youth ministry.
An option, though not a very dependable one.

[waynehoskins]

Originally Posted by adessmith

(or small scale is what I'm considering elaborate, and what we need is "ultra small scale" which doesnt exist...)

Ding ding ding!!

Speaking in super general terms here of course, but the average starting price for a small-scale lighting system is about 20K from what I remember. Moving lights and other trendy things will push this number up. Now, that was a few years ago before LEDs came into the picture, but I think it's still valid. That said, it's possible to do basic for under 20K, but not really under 1K. 1K can get you three LEDs, OK for a coffeeshop gig but that's about it.