Help converting house lights to DMX

[smithfiledhelp]

Hello, our church is evolving and is now ready to begin having intelligent lighting solutions.We currently have lights that are controlled by 6 on/off switches on a wall panel. Before we add lighting bars and theatre lights, we want to control the house lights with a DMX controller in the sound/video room. There are currently no DMX or Multi-Plex technology, just old fashion wiring with on/off switches.

With that said, we are researching what has to be done to convert controlling to a controller in the back. We hoped to add a 12 channel smartpack, but does it support the wiring of the house lights? How do we convert the ac wires from the 6 channels to smartpack???

We have little ceiling space for re-wiring as it's older ceiling that doesn't have false ceilings or attic space. So re-running cables to all lights would be challenge. We hoped to extend current wiring going to the switches on wall to what ever device we use to convert to digital signals.

We think we know what we need for lights, controller, dimmers, etc all except the one challenge of converting the old lights to dimmer/smart pack.

Thank you for any support you can provide.

[Esoteric]

Get a professional on board.

That being said, you would have to run the current wires back to the dimming panel, they can be wired right in, but you will need to provide service to the panel.

Mike

[D.R.HADDOCK]

Originally Posted by smithfiledhelp

Hello, our church is evolving and is now ready to begin having intelligent lighting solutions.We currently have lights that are controlled by 6 on/off switches on a wall panel. Before we add lighting bars and theatre lights, we want to control the house lights with a DMX controller in the sound/video room. There are currently no DMX or Multi-Plex technology, just old fashion wiring with on/off switches.

With that said, we are researching what has to be done to convert controlling to a controller in the back. We hoped to add a 12 channel smartpack, but does it support the wiring of the house lights? How do we convert the ac wires from the 6 channels to smartpack???

We have little ceiling space for re-wiring as it's older ceiling that doesn't have false ceilings or attic space. So re-running cables to all lights would be challenge. We hoped to extend current wiring going to the switches on wall to what ever device we use to convert to digital signals.

We think we know what we need for lights, controller, dimmers, etc all except the one challenge of converting the old lights to dimmer/smart pack.

Thank you for any support you can provide.

There are a few options to consider,

1-instal dmx controlers at or near the existing switchs for the house lights and run the dmx line thru them. this method means least amount of change to the existing wiring, and also means that the lights can still be used by novices
when required.
2-rewire the existing lights, and run cables to the dimmers, this requires an electrician, and possibly a lot of cable, and not always easy at a practicule level due to poor access to existing cables.
3- Instal a second set of house lights, controled by the dimmers.
This is the method I have used, because the original house lights where floros and discharge lights ( mercury vapour ). which are difficult to dim.
this also means that the room can be used for other activities during the week when I am not usually there.
But I think that the atmosphere is much nicer with the dimmer controled incandesant lights, and can change when the atmosphere of the room changes.
You havent said weather the existing lights are incandesant or other, such as floros or discharge.
please let us know how you go?
you can see our house lights at-
http://www.freshwatercc.qld.edu.au/g...YyMWYyNTdkNGVh
just paste this into your browser.

[theatre4jc]

I have a room at my facility where we have been trying to get the money to change our house fixtures over for some years. Our issue is one that you might want to check out.

Our house fixtures (well over 100) do not have individual neutrals. So to be able to individually dim each light we would have to completely re-wire the room to give each fixture it's own neutral line. With you guys having only 6 house fixtures that wouldn't be a huge issue, except for the ceiling space you mentioned. So you may want to check your existing wiring and see if the lights are wired properly for this.

As what D.R. suggested about installing the dimmers near where the current wall switches are, that would save you rewiring, yes, but might be an eye soar to the room. With a project like this I would advise you to educate yourself so you know exactly what you need, which it seems like you are, and even go so far as to find the prices for things if you were to do it yourself. But, and this is an important but, have professionals do the work for you. Bid the job out and you being an educated customer will know if you are being screwed over or not. But rewiring and adding in new home runs for the dimmers themselves should only be done by qualified professionals.

Notice I did not say licensed professionals. Myself for example, and most of the techs at my church (volunteer or paid) could safely do this task. Luckily all of us are industry professionals and know how to do these tasks even though we are not licensed. However we would probably still outsource this just to be safe and cover it with insurance.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, unless you are running temporary (ie portable according the NEC) dimmers and cables (12/3 SO cord), then you MUST get a licensed electrician to do the work or (at least in my locale) it will not be covered by your insurance.

I would spend the money and do it right.

Mike

[D.R.HADDOCK]

Originally Posted by theatre4jc

I have a room at my facility where we have been trying to get the money to change our house fixtures over for some years. Our issue is one that you might want to check out.

Our house fixtures (well over 100) do not have individual neutrals. So to be able to individually dim each light we would have to completely re-wire the room to give each fixture it's own neutral line. With you guys having only 6 house fixtures that wouldn't be a huge issue, except for the ceiling space you mentioned. So you may want to check your existing wiring and see if the lights are wired properly for this.

As what D.R. suggested about installing the dimmers near where the current wall switches are, that would save you rewiring, yes, but might be an eye soar to the room. With a project like this I would advise you to educate yourself so you know exactly what you need, which it seems like you are, and even go so far as to find the prices for things if you were to do it yourself. But, and this is an important but, have professionals do the work for you. Bid the job out and you being an educated customer will know if you are being screwed over or not. But rewiring and adding in new home runs for the dimmers themselves should only be done by qualified professionals.

Notice I did not say licensed professionals. Myself for example, and most of the techs at my church (volunteer or paid) could safely do this task. Luckily all of us are industry professionals and know how to do these tasks even though we are not licensed. However we would probably still outsource this just to be safe and cover it with insurance.

Why do you need individual neutrals to dim your lights?
In every dimmer rack I have seen, all neutrals are common to one neutral line,
provided the one neutral has enough current capacity.
So only one neutral line to your 100 or so house lights is needed.
And the dimmers go in the active line usually.
What have I missed???

[theatre4jc]

Originally Posted by D.R.HADDOCK

Why do you need individual neutrals to dim your lights?
In every dimmer rack I have seen, all neutrals are common to one neutral line,
provided the one neutral has enough current capacity.
So only one neutral line to your 100 or so house lights is needed.
And the dimmers go in the active line usually.
What have I missed???

We are wanting to be able to dim each light separately. Correctly if I'm wrong but to be able to dim each light on it's own circuit wouldn't it need it's own neutral line? I just assumed the OP would want individual control for each light. I'm a big fan of each light being able to be dimmed on it's own and then soft patching them into a group if needed. We were also going to put in ETC Smartpacks witch would need an individual plug for each circuit. Might be different if we went with Sensor racks.

[D.R.HADDOCK]

Originally Posted by theatre4jc

We are wanting to be able to dim each light separately. Correctly if I'm wrong but to be able to dim each light on it's own circuit wouldn't it need it's own neutral line? I just assumed the OP would want individual control for each light. I'm a big fan of each light being able to be dimmed on it's own and then soft patching them into a group if needed. We were also going to put in ETC Smartpacks witch would need an individual plug for each circuit. Might be different if we went with Sensor racks.

You do not need individual neutrals for all lights,
One common neutral is all that is required, provided it has correct current capacity. If you have 100 or more lights I can see why they went with just one neutral line, the savings in cable would have been sizeable.
You can still control them individually, dim them, or patch them anyway you like.
I am not sure what a sensor rack is?
I do have an electrical licence and I have seen and fixed many different dimmer racks,
and they all have one common neutral in the power supply side.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by theatre4jc

We are wanting to be able to dim each light separately. Correctly if I'm wrong but to be able to dim each light on it's own circuit wouldn't it need it's own neutral line? I just assumed the OP would want individual control for each light. I'm a big fan of each light being able to be dimmed on it's own and then soft patching them into a group if needed. We were also going to put in ETC Smartpacks witch would need an individual plug for each circuit. Might be different if we went with Sensor racks.

Some of the confusion might be in lights vs circuits. Each circuit in any dimmer rack MUST have its own neutral. But each circuit is not necessarily the same as each light. However if you run a common neutral all the lights on that common neutral will dim together (you can not dim them individually). It all depends on how flexible you want to be in control.

I have installed, specified, designed, and overseen the installation of ETC, Strand, Leprechaun, and other dimmer racks for more than 10 years.

Mike

[theatre4jc]

Totally. Thanks. That was my thought process but I was starting to doubt myself. I would want complete individual circuits but was starting to doubt my reasoning for why I couldn't do it how it's currently wired.

[D.R.HADDOCK]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

Some of the confusion might be in lights vs circuits. Each circuit in any dimmer rack MUST have its own neutral. But each circuit is not necessarily the same as each light. However if you run a common neutral all the lights on that common neutral will dim together (you can not dim them individually). It all depends on how flexible you want to be in control.

I have installed, specified, designed, and overseen the installation of ETC, Strand, Leprechaun, and other dimmer racks for more than 10 years.

Mike

I was referring to the the wiring between the dimmers and the lights,
I think he said there where over 100 lights, all with a common neutral,
It doesnt really matter how many lights there are, the electrical principle is the same weather there are 100 lights or 10 lights.
With seperate actives and a common neutral,
Because the dimmer is always in the active line, you can dim them individually
even with a common neutral,
If you follow the wiring in any dimmer rack you will see that the neutrals are all commoned to one main neutral point, and the triacs are in the active line.
Unless I am miss understanding something,
I still maintain that only one common neutral line is required between the dimmers and the house lights.

[Steve Vanciel]

Originally Posted by D.R.HADDOCK

the electrical principle is the same weather there are 100 lights or 10 lights.

Possibly, but as a practical matter, what type of dimmer are we dealing with? Is it a portable pack with individual outlets or and installation pack with terminal strips? What are the manufacturer's requirements for installation?

Another consideration is the ampacity of the installed common neutral wire. When it was put in for a switched operation, they could assume that it was a non-current carrying conductor. By changing to a dimmer (likely SCRs) the neutral may well become a current carrying conductor for the unbalanced load between all of the supply lines.

A site inspection and calculations are necessary to deturmine the exact nature of the situation.

SteveV