Using security / webcam cameras for worship

[burlingtonumc]

Just curious if any churches have tried this. I scanned through the other posts and didn't see anything about it. Some of the cameras that are intended as security cameras or as webcams that are made by Logitech and Panasonic certainly seem to have specs that match or exceed cameras like the Sony EVI-D100 that have been used in churches for years. Plus, because of their intended application, they connect seamlessly with a wireless network, making them extremely easy to use for broadcasting over the internet. Oh, and they're way, way cheaper. So I need the pros to tell me why this is a really bad idea -- what am I missing?

[NdEd]

Lag and jerky output are typcial reports for this concept.

[Esoteric]

I would never, never, never do this. I would rather not have the cam than have the terrible, jerky picture that comes from this type of solution. Not to mention there would be a noticeable difference between this type of cam and your other cams.

Mike

[TrinityEB]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

I would never, never, never do this. I would rather not have the cam than have the terrible, jerky picture that comes from this type of solution. Not to mention there would be a noticeable difference between this type of cam and your other cams.

Unfortunately I'm learning the hard way to never to say never. We're using an X10 Vanguard 22x optical zoom PTZ camera to record our services. Esoteric and NdEd are spot on in that 1) the video quality of the camera/lens doesn't compare with even a consumer level camcorder and 2) Pan & tilts have a jerky, robotic feel. 3) The autofocus is extremely noticable when zooming in/out. Why on earth would we use it then? it suits our needs, at least for now. We're only recording video to create webcasts of the sermon for the web. There's no place in our sanctuary to inconspicously place a camera/operator so this has proved to be an acceptable cost effective alternative for us. The composite output from the camera is connected to a Neuros OSD digital recorder. We record onto SDHC cards and later transfer the file to a PC to edit out everything but the children's sermon & sermon. We have a couple of youth that will sit in one of the rear pews with a 2.4gHz wireless handheld monitor and use the wireless remote to control the camera. It's far from ideal, but it enables us to capture the important parts of the service for the web.

You can see an example here: www.trinity-pc.org/webcasts/2009-04-12.shtml

- Frank.

[zactommo]

Webcams are a definatley a big no no, the quality sucks, end of story. Security type cameras can work in certain situations, but I certainly wouldn't be using lots of them.

A high quality security camera with a manual focus lens would do a good job as a fixed position drum camera or the like, but not much else.

[billmi]

Originally Posted by TrinityEB

Unfortunately I'm learning the hard way to never to say never. We're using an X10 Vanguard 22x optical zoom PTZ camera to record our services.

The X10 Vanguard is not a webcam, it is an analog video camera.

The jerkiness you are talking about in pan and tilt is one thing - and like the EVI-D100, it can be easily overcome, if you are using multiple cameras, by not moving the cameras when they are live.

I believe the jerkiness others have been referring to, is the stuttering of frame rates, and delayed video that comes from webcams compressing video down into a low bandwidth video format as they stream it.

[burlingtonumc]

All good to know! So it certainly sounds like the security camera specs for colors, picture resolution, ability to ptz, etc. that *appear* to be similar to real cameras mask the two important specs where they don't match real cameras -- ability to keep up with the 30 fps and an inferior ptz mechanism.

[daver2]

After a lot of playing around with security cameras and cameras from various electronic high street shops - we finally settled on a good quality camera designed for the video conferencing market. This seems to offer a good quality picture, good tracking capability, remote control and reasonably low cost. If anyone is interested I will note the manufacturer and model number in the next post.

[theatre4jc]

I don't remember the model number or manufacturer but I use to use some bullet cams for IMAG at concerts. They fit perfectly into the clip on a mic stand. We would just have a few of them as random static shots to cut to from our 1 moble camera. Image looked different but for a rock show with a bunch of quick cuts it worked great. Made the show feel a lot large than it was. However I wouldn't use them for broadcasting a church service. Maybe for sending an internal feed to say the nursery so they could see a wide shot of the service but that would be about it.

[TrinityEB]

Originally Posted by daver2

After a lot of playing around with security cameras and cameras from various electronic high street shops - we finally settled on a good quality camera designed for the video conferencing market. This seems to offer a good quality picture, good tracking capability, remote control and reasonably low cost. If anyone is interested I will note the manufacturer and model number in the next post.

Interested.

[daver2]

The camera we use is a Sony EVI-D70. Available in black or white. It has composite and S-Video outputs and is controllable via an RS422 or RS232 protocol. We use a PC software controller from www dot camerapad dot com called 'moving' - this costs about $50 US. It allows us to manually control the camera at random, can very the speed of movement so it doesn't feel as though you are on a roller coaster when watching the video stream, and you can pre-set certain specific locations and recall them at will by operating the function keys. We did find that you needed a fairly substantial mounting bracket as the internal motors can generate quite a bit of torque which translates into noticable wobble if it is supported by flimsy plywood! Our final bracket was made by a blacksmith and will outlast the Church building!

[cambridgecrc]

Originally Posted by daver2

The camera we use is a Sony EVI-D70. Available in black or white. It has composite and S-Video outputs and is controllable via an RS422 or RS232 protocol. We use a PC software controller from www dot camerapad dot com called 'moving' - this costs about $50 US. It allows us to manually control the camera at random, can very the speed of movement so it doesn't feel as though you are on a roller coaster when watching the video stream, and you can pre-set certain specific locations and recall them at will by operating the function keys. We did find that you needed a fairly substantial mounting bracket as the internal motors can generate quite a bit of torque which translates into noticable wobble if it is supported by flimsy plywood! Our final bracket was made by a blacksmith and will outlast the Church building!

Hi,

I just found this thread and was considering using the EVI-D70. Can you point me to a sample of a service from this camera, preferably with some camera movement so I can see what it looks like? Also, can you tell me what software and what capture card you use. Thanks