keyer for lower thirds

[canada]

I'd like to start doing lower-thirds and scripture references over live video in our services. We're already doing live video projected on some screens, and we're also using Mediashout 3.

I tried routing the live video feed into the mediashout PC and using it as a background, but the video was too "choppy" which may be because I was using a very cheap video capture card.

Another option would be to use a dedicated keyer of some sort and run averything through that and set mediashout to do white words on a black or green background. I like this idea, but there's a problem; we're sending the image to a projector using a VGA cable and also to some CRT monitors using RCA cable. The keyer would have to be able to support both VGA and RCA.

Should I buy a good video capture card and run the video through mediashout? or should I use a dedicated chroma/luma keyer? ...and if I use a keyer, where do I inseret it on my output?

You can view a detailed layout of our video equipment setup here: http://lifeinyou.com/schematic-video.pdf

[[Director] Joseph B]

It's not something I do but I believe that those doing this on a regular basis are using a dedicated chroma/luma device. There is a lag on video captured - I also vaugely recall some using firewire also.

You're always going to have issues when trying to push live video through a computer (unless you have something like a NewTek Video Toaster). I'd recommend a "downstream" keyer (meaning it's placed later in the chain). You can still use MS to create the lower thirds and run those slides through the keyer. Best wishes!

[jregel]

We're putting text over video using a TV-One CS-470. It sits downstream of the video mixer but before our Kramer VP724XL presentation scaler/switcher. It only does lumakey and not chromakey and outputs either S-video or composite video. The Kramer takes it as a video input and scales it to VGA resolution for the projector.

Hope this helps.

[canada]

Originally Posted by Tim Eason

unless you have something like a NewTek Video Toaster. I'd recommend a "downstream" keyer

As a matter of fact, someone gave us an old VT2 system and it's sitting in storage right now. My plan was to eventually use it for some video editing tasks. Am I correct in thinking that it would be better to buy a downstream keyer than to use the VT2 computer for doing text over live video in the service? ...'cause that's what I'm thinking.

Originally Posted by canada

As a matter of fact, someone gave us an old VT2 system and it's sitting in storage right now. My plan was to eventually use it for some video editing tasks. Am I correct in thinking that it would be better to buy a downstream keyer than to use the VT2 computer for doing text over live video in the service? ...'cause that's what I'm thinking.

A dedicated keyer is going to be more solid. I don't have any time on a VT2. I had a VT3/4 for a while. The times that I used it I didn't have any problems, but any time you use a computer-based system you run the risk of a crash or delay. A lot of it depends on the power of your computer. It's worth trying the VT2 as your keyer, but a dedicated piece of hardware will probably be better in the long run.

[canada]

Originally Posted by jregel

We're putting text over video using a TV-One CS-470...

It looks like this is what we need. Looking at our setup here: http://lifeinyou.com/schematic-video.pdf would you say that we could use the CS-470 to do song lyrics and scripture verses (generated by mediashout) over our live video?

Also, jregel, where did you buy your CS-470 from?

Thanks for the help!

[jregel]

We got our CS-470 from TV One, but I'm not sure if they are still making them. The CS-470 is a slightly improved version of the CS-470 which you can get from AV Toolbox (http://www.avtoolbox.co.uk/scanconpage.shtml). The major differences are that it has a 6 line flicker fixer instead of a 4 line flicker fixer and that it is rack mounted. The unit can take composite video (1 input and 2 outputs) OR svideo (1 input and 1 output), but not both at the same time.

It would do what you want if you installed it between the MX20 and the VP720DS. There is a button on the front of the CS470 which allows the overlay to be turned on or off so you could control it that way. The way we have done it though is to split the video signal so that we send an overlayed signal to one input on our Kramer, and the raw video to another input on the Kramer. This means our operators never need to worry about touching the CS-470 and all their input control is through the Kramer.

The results are very good when the background "key" is black. Obviously this means that you cannot display black text, but as it's a lumakey unit, anything "brighter" than the key will be displayed, which applies to fairly dark colours of grey, so you probably won't notice anything.

In an ideal world, we'd have an overlay unit that scales the video up to computer resolutions and doesn't down convert the signal to video resolutions, but these are very expensive and I'm not sure our congregation would appreciate the difference.

[canada]

Thanks for the help J. One last question: does the CS-470 have a computer "loopthrough" or a seperate output for the VGA signal without keyer?

What I'm geting at here is, what about when we use mediashout to show a video, or what if we want to use mediashout to show an animation behind our song lyrics instead of having live video behind the lyrics. Does the CS-470 allow us to have one output with overlay and another output without overlay routed to two seperate inputs on our Kramer so we can switch between the two.

I understand from what you said that the video can work that way, but about the VGA signal?

by the way, I found a retailer for the CS-470 near where I live. http://www.touchboards.com/TVOne/TVOne_CS-470.asp

[kbob]

that's exactly what we do, though with a different model-

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...er_Scaler.html

For it, you have to both enable the keying capabilities (which means no edge blending, something we didn't realize when we first got it), and invert the order of the vga and sd inputs so the vga serves as an overlay full time.

The only thing you have to do is make sure that which ever sd input is feeding is set to black when you want to use vga straight, and black out your vga when you simply want to up-scale the sd input(s).

We use it in conjunction with an ancient videonics mx pro. the pro handles all the switching for the sd feeds, the cameras and dvd player in our case. The tv one unit handles the pro's output, and we also feed it with the worship pc's feed, set as I described above.

It required us to use the blackout features of EasyWorship more frequently, and the color button (set to black) for maintaining the black background behind the "full time" overlay in the way we use it. So far, it just sits there and works.

We haven't explored the other inputs or audio inputs yet, but may in the future. Great little unit, but it might be a bit of overkill for what you need right now.

[davidjas]

Panasonic makes a titler that goes specifically for the MX20 called the WJ-KB50. Well, technically it goes to the MX50, but is also compatible with the MX20. I'm not sure if the WJ-KB30 would also be compatible or not. If you don't want anything too fancy, as in just text over a single colored background, that should work fine. Otherwise you'll need a stand-alone DSk like Tim is saying (or possibly upgrade your switcher if that is an option).

[canada]

Originally Posted by jregel

We're putting text over video using a TV-One CS-470.

We just bought a TV One CS-450 and it's exactly what we needed to do lower thirds. It works great. Thanks for all your help!