Hi res LED displays

[Ace in the hole]

These skylights are big and they are on a 12/12 pitch roof. Each glass panel is about 3' x 6' and there is like 32 of them up there all joined together at the peak. We have several options from the glass company including something similar to what you suggest but even those options would be in the 6-7k range and then would only have a life expectancy of 5-7 years. So thats why we were looking at replacing glass. I should say too that the options we got were not actual quotes but just budget figures from a fellow church member in the glass business.

[Paris MkVI]

Why not have a company simply apply tint to the glass in the skylights? Darkest possible tint will not be terribly expensive and should reduce your other costs enough to more than make up the difference.

[tdangelo]

Ace in the Hole,

If you are seriously looking at non-projection solutions you may want to have a look at Christie Micro Tiles. Unlike conventional LED screen technology which tends to appear pixilated, Micro Tiles do not suffer from the same problem, although do have a slight mullion.
Particularly beneficial for your situation the net screen size is scalable by adding or taking away tiles. Additionally non-conventional aspect ratios and screen shapes are possible.
Lastly, at whatever point you move away from Micro Tiles as your “projection screen” solution, the tiles can easily be used in digital-signage applications.

See:

http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us...ion-Video.aspx

[tdangelo]

Originally Posted by Paris MkVI

Why not have a company simply apply tint to the glass in the skylights? Darkest possible tint will not be terribly expensive and should reduce your other costs enough to more than make up the difference.

Motorized blinds at the skylights are a good solution as well, and probably far less expensive than LED walls or similar technology.

[Ace in the hole]

Originally Posted by tdangelo

Motorized blinds at the skylights are a good solution as well, and probably far less expensive than LED walls or similar technology.

We looked at those as well and they are still an option. But we were cautioned by the glass man that they will also increase the stress on the glass and seals because they will increase the temp around the glass when they are in the closed position, possibly leading to leaks.

[Ace in the hole]

Originally Posted by tdangelo

Ace in the Hole,

If you are seriously looking at non-projection solutions you may want to have a look at Christie Micro Tiles. Unlike conventional LED screen technology which tends to appear pixilated, Micro Tiles do not suffer from the same problem, although do have a slight mullion.
Particularly beneficial for your situation the net screen size is scalable by adding or taking away tiles. Additionally non-conventional aspect ratios and screen shapes are possible.
Lastly, at whatever point you move away from Micro Tiles as your “projection screen” solution, the tiles can easily be used in digital-signage applications.

See:

http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us...ion-Video.aspx

Wow, those look very nice too. Does anyone know price? Either per tile or for the size screen we are looking at. I would assume they would be comparable to led display cost but would like to know more.

[tdangelo]

The rep is Erik Theilking, 212-586-8616.

[Esoteric]

That is awesome. I am going to have to contact my distributor. Add this one to my arsenal.

Mike

[stevelam]

I talked to our LED Sign dept and they said for a pro quality sign 4mm pixel pitch, 16' by 9' we are looking at a ROUGH ESTIMATE (no real pricing here) of $170k. For a 10mm 16' by 9' we are looking at 35k. Those are just estimates on what the panels themselves would cost and the processor. I hope this doesn't violate forum rules that I am posting it this way. These are in no way shape or form final prices. Just a rough rough estimate to give you an idea what the LED wall would cost from a sign company.

Also I have put in LED walls and high powered projection systems and to be honest I gotta go with Esoteric's idea. Two 10k lumen projectors stacked will give a rocking' display and you'll pay a lot less.

Plus what TDAngelo said is true too. As much as the LED Sign dept hates to admit it, even with a 4mm pitch it's easy to tell it's an LED sign. There is just no getting away from it. A pixel every 4mm is pretty caveman by today's standards for most video applications. We forgive LED walls because of the technology behind them and the distance from which we usually view them.

The Christie Microtiles are AMAZING but I haven't seen pricing on them yet. I have to believe there is a premium to be paid for technology that incredible.

[Ace in the hole]

I did some research on the microtiles and found an article on them that said msrp of each tile was around $3k but that's the only thing I have come up with, no regular retail prices.

What 10k lumen projectors are you thinking of that would be in the $16-17k range? Everything I find at projector central is well over $20k in that lumen range.

[stevelam]

Well for my two cents look at the projectors a little closer I would go with (2) Eiki EIP-HDT30 stacked with wide angle lenses. That way the projectors can be really close to the wall to minimize any loss between the projector and wall. Then I would use a Vutec Silverstar if it will be a sufficient distance from the congregation to accomadate the narrow viewing angle. Now if you want an electric screen I would use a Vutec Lectric III-C with PearlBrite fabric (again if the distance to the congregation can accommodate the viewing angle).

Now these projectors are only 8000 lumens but with the monster contrast ratio on these units and double stacking them, I think the colors will be rich and the picture will be bright.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by Ace in the hole

I did some research on the microtiles and found an article on them that said msrp of each tile was around $3k but that's the only thing I have come up with, no regular retail prices.

And at roughly 12"x16" per tile, a 9'x16' image would be 9 tiles high and 12 tiles wide, or 108 tiles. List price of the MicroTiles is closer to $3,500 each plus you need mounting brackets, multiple processors, etc. And anywhere from around 80 to 120 Amps of 120VAC service. You probably won't find 'retail' costs for the MicroTiles or any similar video wall products as these are usually systems sold through qualified professional dealers and not commodity products.

Originally Posted by stevelam

Well for my two cents look at the projectors a little closer I would go with (2) Eiki EIP-HDT30 stacked with wide angle lenses. That way the projectors can be really close to the wall to minimize any loss between the projector and wall. Then I would use a Vutec Silverstar if it will be a sufficient distance from the congregation to accommodate the narrow viewing angle. Now if you want an electric screen I would use a Vutec Lectric III-C with PearlBrite fabric (again if the distance to the congregation can accommodate the viewing angle).

Now these projectors are only 8000 lumens but with the monster contrast ratio on these units and double stacking them, I think the colors will be rich and the picture will be bright.

There seem to be a number of practical issues with this approach. Vutec appears to provide lots of marketing but little real data for the SilverStar screens, in fact trying to get the related technical data on their web site kicks you back out to their home site. However, from what information is available the 9'x16' screen size seems well outside the available sizes and would required 'multiplexed' screens.

Also, while the high gain of the SilverStar screen allows for the same image brightness with a lower output projector, that same gain also applies to any ambient light. Unless it is simply not practical to use a brighter projector and/or the ambient light levels approach those in a cinema, the higher gain screen may let you use a lower output projector but with some tradeoff in terms of the resulting image contrast. Related to this, in a typical worship space a 10:1 image contrast ratio is a good goal, which makes whether the projector itself has a 100:1, 1,000:1 or 10,000:1 contrast ratio a bit of a moot point as the difference will not be seen in the resulting projected image due to the ambient light rather than the projector determining the black level of the image.

To avoid hot spotting, aberrations at the edges of the image, etc., I suggest avoiding wide angle lenses if at all possible, particularly when stacking projectors or in combination with a high gain screens.

I also noted that the EIP-HDT30 specifications of 8,000 ANSI lumens and 7,500:1 contrast ratio are mutually exclusive. If one looks at the specs in more detail, they seem to configure the color wheel and processing one way to get the 8,000 lumen brightness rating and then use a quite different configuration to get the stated 7,500:1 contrast ratio and the rich colors noted. The brightness rating of the EIP-HDT30 is also noted to be based on a particular lens. This is typical of many projector specifications and you often have to look carefully at exactly what is being said when comparing numbers.

The net result is that the Eiki EIP-HDT30 and Vutec SilverStar screen may be a good combination for some home theater applications but don't necessarily seem the best choice for a typical worship space that usually involve a larger image, larger viewing area and higher ambient light levels. For those applications I would typically look more toward brighter projectors and unless the viewing area is long and narrow, a lower gain, wide viewing angle screen. If the ambient light levels are high and those involved will accept a gray screen when nothing is projected, I might even go with a high contrast screen material.