Video/Computer signals to stage monitors/projectors

[lvirden]

Currently we are projecting worship lyrics, etc. on the front wall/screen of the sanctuary. However, the praise team has expressed an interest in having the words also appear on the back wall.

Personally, I would prefer not to do this. If the system should die for some reason (and this has happened probably 5 or 6 times over nearly 3 yrs), the worship team is going to be embarassed. And if someone running the presentation makes a mistake (which has happened probably 40 times in the 3+ years), even MORE people are going to be embarrassed.


however, I have been asked to investigate what it will take.

I'm working on setting up a dual monitor setup now, so that we can work on service presentations while projecting some slides.
Frankly, even that makes me uncomfortable - the most common time we need to make changes is during songs - and if I am messing with songs, then I'm not switching slides from one verse or chorus to the next...

Anyways, sorry to divert...

Does anyone here use multiple projectors from a single PC, and if so, how do you wire things up? One video card and then a splitter and some how boost the signal?

[swhitlow]

You can simply have one video card out and split the signal using a standard splitter from radio shack. Then, you would probably want to get two amplifiers to boost the video signals that are going to the multiple projectors (since the signal would be degraded after splitting). This would allow you to display the same signal on both projectors. Hope this answers your question!

p.s. I agree with you on the other issues though. It does get depended upon way too much and can be a MAJOR distraction for the congregation to be looking at the back wall.

A way better option is to set up tv monitors facing them and upwards that displays the lyrics for the choir members. This seems to work fine for us.

[lvirden]

With regards to distractions, the second projector will, hopefully, be mounted far enough back that the audience won't be distracted by the beam itself, and since we are displaying the same information forward, the only reason to look back would be the novelty of the situation.

I worry more about the worship team becoming dependant on the projector.

[lvirden]

The advice given here makes lots of sense - thanks all!

We are planning to install stage video monitors for the choir and ministry team. What is the most common monitors used, are they simply TVs or a true video monitor?

The monitors will be approx. 10 ft. from the choir, what size are most churches using?
Posted by Don Loudenbeck on Sep 2, 2001.


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Don,

Most of the monitors I've seen in churches have been regular TVs, mostly 27". There is an article on the subject at http://www.churchmedia.net/CMU/howto...monitors.shtml

I'd recommend the CORIOScan Connect for a scan converter. Check it out at http://www.churchmedia.net/go.mv?ID=SC-CS300-TV1. You don't need to sink a lot of $$ into a monitor system since it's acting mainly as a teleprompter.

Another tip: the monitors should be used as a REFERENCE, not a substitute for practice. It will be obvious if your worship team looks at it too much. You don't want it to become a crutch....

Some churches install the monitors into the front row so that you only need to move your eyes down and not your whole head. In short, the monitors should be virtually transparent to the congregation.

Let us know how it goes!

Tim
Posted by Tim Eason on Sep 2, 2001.

I read the article on connecting TV monitors on stage from the computer but where does the connection to the projector come in, for the congregation? Normally I connect the Monitor out from my laptop to the computer connection on the EPSON projector. What are the steps involved in this process?

Cheryl
Posted by Cheryl Carlson on Jul 2, 2002.


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I will assume that your video card does not have a composite out. What you will need to do is get a 1X2 VGA distribution amp. Plug the monitor out of your computer to the monitor in on the amp. You will then have 2 monitor outs. One will go to the projector the other will go to the other piece of equipment that you will need, a scan converter. Plug the second out of the amp into the computer in on your scan converter. Then you will be able to run a composite signal to your TV monitors using RG6 with RCA ends. I would suggest calling you local Professional Audio Video contractor, or I am sure that Tim has a few things up his sleeve. if not, call Worhsip Resources at 1-800-486-0305.
Posted by drew ryan on Jul 2, 2002.


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There is usually a "loop-through" connection on a scan converter that would go up to the projector. It's just like a monitor connector (15-pin)...
Posted by Tim Eason on Jul 2, 2002.


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Great thread...

I use a cheap (<$99) scan converter vs. a DA. The composite video out of my scan convert goes to an even cheaper radioshack RF generator (takes RCA A/V input, RG6 (coax) out, channel 3/4 selectable). This "cheap" solution is great, except for one problem: whenever I show a very dark or black image on the projector (therefore, out the scan converter and to the RF generator), the RF generator starts blinking off/on and flashing static to the TV monitors in the front of the church. The send to the projector is fine (using SundayPlus as the software, with dual video cards).

So, do I need to buy a better RF generator, or use a real DA then scan convert down to TV? The $99 scan converter is basically a VGA 'Y' cable, with one cable going to the projector, the other to the scan converter.

Brian Busch
Director of Worship & Praise
Purcellville Baptist Church, VA
Posted by Brian Busch on Jul 9, 2002.


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Note: These messages came from our email forum
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Brian,

Connect the TV directly to the scan converter and run the slide. If it works, try running RG6 coax cable to the TV and bypass the RF device. Coax cable is very cheap, typically about 20 cents per foot and easy to install. Hope this helps.

Blessings to all,
Kevin Willis
messageOne communications
www.messone.com
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It sounds like Brian is currently connected to an RF system, probably running the monitors on Channel 3 or 4. If you eliminate the RF converter, you'll have to change the input to the TV to a video input rather than the RF input. Also, composite video should really go through a DA (distribution amp). It is not real forgiving when you start splitting the signal. RF is more forgiving. The flashing you are seeing is from a black level being out of range. The scan converter could be producing a poor black signal that the RF converter can't do anything with. Another possibility is that the monitors think they're losing a signal, perhaps because you're not using a DA.

Ideally, you would scan convert the computer signal to composite video, and then go through a DA to all your monitors. The other option is to turn the composite video signal into RF, and then go out to your monitors. An RF DA may or may not be required.

Chris Monaghan
CDI
Pro AV Sales Engineer
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Posted by Our Email Forum on Jul 20, 2002.

Help! Does anyone know where I can find a "scan converter" that converts VGA to Composite RCA? I already have the RF Modulator. I am trying to rig up video monitors for our church choir because their backs are to our big screen. Please help!
Posted by Josh Childress on Sep 13, 2002.


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You can check out our scan converters at:
http://www.churchmedia.net/Merchant2...y_Code=VACC-SC

The CORIOscan Connect should be sufficient. I recently worked with a CMN customer who bought a cheap-o scan converter and it didn't work. He bought the Connect and it worked great.

If you haven't already, read this article:
http://www.churchmedia.net/CMU/howto/stagemonitors.htm

Take Care,

Tim
Posted by Tim Eason on Sep 13, 2002.


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Hey, I'm the guy he's talking about above!

I bought the one this web site offers (the CORIOScan). It worked right out of the box, and has excellent quality (at least as good as you can get w/ Composite . It wasn't too cheap, but it replaced an even cheaper one from CompUSA which didn't work right when the image coming from the computer was very dark or black. It would flicker off/on, and cause static to be displayed on the monitors (my equally cheap RF generator didn't handle that well either).

Also, the flicker control in this scan converter is great, my images are steady and flicker free, even using my cheap RF-generator. I would recommend it for another reason, it remembers the size/position during poweroff (probably a standard feature on other brands) but also provides an auto-setup feature, where it sizes/positions the image in steps, attempting to find the idea size/position.

The only downside: YARC. Yes, it is the infamous Yet Another Remote Control. I have too many of them in my sound booth, wireless keyboard, CD, VCR, ScanConverter, DVD, Remote Camera. I need a shelf just for R/Cs!

Great converter.

Brian Busch
Director of Worship & Praise
Purcellville Baptist Church, VA
Posted by Brian Busch on Sep 13, 2002.

I just read your article on the above subject in the July/August "Technologies for Worship" magazine. Have you ever looked at using a computer monitor instead of the TV? Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison of cost looking at the various components necessary for each system? I realize that computer monitors are more expensive than comparable size TV's however I have found that good scan converters are quite expensive also, $1000 plus. Clarity of the TV or Monitor or flat panel may not be a problem when only text is displayed. Also I am hoping the flat panel video (computer) displays will start coming down in price soon. These would be a real blessing for space considerations. There just isn't much room under or on the front pew.

Bill VanderMeulen
Heritage Christian Reformed Church
Byron Center, MI
Posted by Bill VanderMeulen on Sep 29, 2000.


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Bill,

These are some great suggestions. I'm limited on space for that column and decided to explain the TV route as opposed to computer monitors, otherwise I would have explained both methods. You are correct when you say that using computer monitors is a more expensive method. The cabling, signal splitter/amp, and monitors are all more costly. In my travels, I have mostly
encountered TV stage monitors. Many times one to three monitors are built in to the front row of the congregational seating. This allows the choir/praise band and the pastor to be able to see the monitors. It also allows them to glance down with their eyes rather than obviously bending their heads down to see. Since this application is only for monitoring, the quality of the scan converter isn't as big of a factor. I'm also looking forward to the day when we can all afford flat panel displays!

Thanks again for the comments. I appreciate your insight. I'll most likely write a sidebar on the subject for posting on my website. Let me know if
there is anything we can do for you.

Take Care,

Tim Eason
Posted by Tim Eason on Sep 29, 2000.


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First, I like your website it has a lot of good resources.

I have a question about video stage monitors? We are using PowerPoint, of course, and with our projector remote we have a freeze button. Which will allow you to freeze an image on the projector screen, while you work on something else, and the whole church doesn't see what you are doing. (Pulling up song that were not planned on, etc..) We are also only using one monitor in the sound booth.

Is there a way to use video stage monitors and the choir to see what the church sees and not what we are seeing in the sound booth?

Make a joyful SOUND!
Greg
Posted by Greg Edwards on Sep 29, 2000.


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Greg,

Thanks for the complement!

You would need to put the scan converter on the VGA loop-through connector on the projector. This way, what ever the projector is showing will show on the stage monitors.

Computer >>>> Projector >>>> Scan Converter >>>> RF Modulator >>>> Splitter/Amp >>>> TVs

Let me know if you need further explanation!

Take Care,

Tim Eason
www.ChurchMedia.net

Posted by Tim Eason on Sep 29, 2000.


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Greg - good question

Tim - good answer

This is exactly what we needed to know. We too make great use of the freeze button and have just provided our singers with a monitor.

Tone Mckernan
LifeLine Technology Group
LifeLine Community Church
London (UK)


Posted by Tone Mckernan on Oct 2, 2000.

We are attempting to change our current projection system setup to support using EasyWorship in dual monitor mode to drive both a projector and 2 TV monitors on a stage. We currently cable (standard 15 pin) from our Compaq computer to the projector and have a SVideo cable from a VCR to the same projector. We use the projector remote control to switch between "RGB" and "Video" to control the input source.
We are now purchasing a Dell 4400 with a 64MB NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 4X AGP with TV-Out and 2 27" Sony WEGAs for the stage monitors. We are hoping to have the same video image on the projector and the monitors. Since the monitors will continue to use the SVideo feed and we want the dual monitor support from the Dell (for EasyWorship and PowerPoint), I was wondering could we use the TV-out (SVideo) on the NVIDIA graphic card as the "projection" output (as opposed to the standard 15 pin) from the computer to the projector and the monitors. We still need to identify a box that would permit us to have 2 SVideo inputs (one from the NVIDIA TV-out and one from the VCR) and 3 outputs (the projector, and the 2 monitors). Is this feasible and what type of "box" would permit us to have the above "inputs" and "outputs" ? Hopefully I was able to convey the configuration that we are striving for.

Thank you for any advice or assistance.

John Conley (Boones Creek Christian Church)
Posted by John Conley on Mar 15, 2002.


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To add to this, try to use two cards and stay away from the dual head cards. You can accomplish the same thing using two cards that you can with one with the benifiet of having two good outputs.

With dual head cards you end up with a really good primary port running the operators screen and a sub-standard port running the projector which is where you need all the power. This holds true for the majority of the dual head cards, I haven't tested the GeForce4 yet. Basically the second port on these cards lack 3D acceleration and memory and they usually share the Graphics Processor. The two cards give you more flexibility and allow you to boot to the PCI and project to the AGP which is also benifitial for projections.

Anyway, that my two cents.
Jeff Taylor
EasyWorship Support.
Posted by Jeff Taylor on Mar 16, 2002.


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Thank you Jeff,

Thank you for the suggestion and I will look to add a PCI based graphics card to the system to complement the NVIDIA GeForce2 AGP card. We will use this setup to support the dual monitor support for EasyWorship.

To elaborate more on one issue that I'm still a little foggy on. We want to supply the same image from our computer to the projector and the 2 monitors and occasionally project a VCR image on all three. Then at other times, we want the capability to only show an image (either computer or VCR) on only the 2 monitors and not the projector. We are hoping to use the monitors for people on the stage to show either the same image or a different image than the projector for the audience. I'm a little confused on how we can support both the projector and monitor images from potential 2 different sources. Hopefully, this makes a little more sense.

1. Computer>>Projector and Monitors
2. VCR>>Projector and Monitors
3. Computer>>Monitors only (projector off)
4. VCR>>Monitors only (project off)
5. Computer Image 1>>Monitors
Computer Image 2>>Projector
6. (hopefully but realistic)
Computer>>Monitors
VCR>>Projector

The projector (Hitachi CP-S860 LCD) has a 15 pin out which we could use to route the computer signal out of the projector and to the monitors, but if I use it, how would I handle the potential SVideo signal to the monitors if the image is supplied to the projector from a VCR since there is no SVideo out of the projector?

Sorry for the long reply but hopefully this helps explain my situation better.

Thanks again !

John Conley
Posted by John Conley on Mar 16, 2002.

We are using a notebook computer to run ppt and projecting via RGB output through a ceiling mount projector. The computer also has a composite video "out". We need a stage monitor so preacher can see the slides without turning around. Can I simply plug an RCA plug into "composite out", run through an inexpensive wireless video transmitter to a tv on stage? Does plugging into one output "deactivate" the others or can I use both? Is the wireless transmitter a good enough signal or should I run coaxial cable (about 100 ft)? Thanks for your help.
Posted by Richard Poe on Dec 2, 2002.


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Wow, Richard! You are one concise writer--packed a slew of questions into so little space. The answers to your questions is: It depends. Laptops differ considerably. If you have an S-video port that would work better than the RCA (composite) video out (which may need a scan coverter). You should get signal out of all ports at the same time. Also, you'll have less problems with coax I guarentee. Fortuneatly you can easliy test all this close to the notebook using cheap cable.
Posted by Gregory E. Zschomler on Dec 2, 2002.


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There might be a problem of distance with S-video whereas composite wouldn't have that problem. Remember the problem of NTSC signals having low resolution. Your pastor may not be able to read the ppt and depending on his leadership style might insist on changes to make the video clearer.
Posted by Paul Clifford on Dec 4, 2002.

Originally posted by Old Community
We are using a notebook computer to run ppt and projecting via RGB output through a ceiling mount projector. The computer also has a composite video "out". We need a stage monitor so preacher can see the slides without turning around. Can I simply plug an RCA plug into "composite out", run through an inexpensive wireless video transmitter to a tv on stage? Does plugging into one output "deactivate" the others or can I use both? Is the wireless transmitter a good enough signal or should I run coaxial cable (about 100 ft)? Thanks for your help.
Posted by Richard Poe on Dec 2, 2002.


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Wow, Richard! You are one concise writer--packed a slew of questions into so little space. The answers to your questions is: It depends. Laptops differ considerably. If you have an S-video port that would work better than the RCA (composite) video out (which may need a scan coverter). You should get signal out of all ports at the same time. Also, you'll have less problems with coax I guarentee. Fortuneatly you can easliy test all this close to the notebook using cheap cable.
Posted by Gregory E. Zschomler on Dec 2, 2002.


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There might be a problem of distance with S-video whereas composite wouldn't have that problem. Remember the problem of NTSC signals having low resolution. Your pastor may not be able to read the ppt and depending on his leadership style might insist on changes to make the video clearer.
Posted by Paul Clifford on Dec 4, 2002.

tigerdirect.com sells a device called an ultimate 2000. this device allows rgb feed thru while a seperate usb, and or composite out is available... and this device is only about 80.00

USB?

The specs are:

640x480@60/72/75/85Hz, 800x600@56/60/72/75Hz, 1024x768@60Hz display modes
Power supplied from keyboard (Adapter cable included) - NO BULKY EXTERNAL POWER SUPPLY!
No software required
Switchable NTSC, NTSC-EIAJ (for Japan), PAL, PAL-M, PAL-N, PAL-combination-N and SECAM (via RGB OUT) video systems - WORKS NEARLY EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD!
Composite and S-Video outputs
Full vertical and horizontal screen position adjustments
Zoom & Pan
VGA IN and VGA OUT for simultaneous TV/CRT viewing

Basically, it's a consumer level Scan Converter. The max resolution is XGA with only 60 Hz, and only composite or S-Video outputs. I'd recommend one of the scan converters made by FSR, Extron or Communication Specialties over a consumer device. But that's my opinion.

when we had a similar situation, we kinda cheated... the video card had the output that we needed and just ran where it was needed... (from the computer, to switcher, to 2nd switcher, to recorders on one side adn the other side was sent to the projector... ) works great, and enabled us to have a house catv system as well utilizing the composite input to the vcr and rf out to the tv monitors in the fellowship hall and kiddie room... and for overflow as well...