16:9 Projection

Does anyone have any idea how soon we should be looking at using the 16 X 9 format in regard to video projection? What kind of time frame are we looking at?
Posted by Robert Holcomb on Sep 29, 2000.

I keep hearing and reading a lot about 16:9 projection. I don't know anything about it, other than I think it's similar to watching a widescreen DVD on your regular television. Does anyone on the list have any experience using it in your church? Does it require special projectors, screens, etc? I would love to see some discussion on this. Thanks, everyone!

Ron Anderson
The Church at Rocky Peak
Chatsworth, CA
www.rockypeak.org/worshiparts

Posted by Ron Anderson on Jul 20, 2002.

[dovprst]

Tone,

I changed my projector aspect to 16:9. Then I played a widesreen dvd movie on laptop drive, connected to projector by s-video. I used win xp display prop. to change monitor 2 to 1280 x 768 [I think that's the right numbers]. Still the movie did not look right.

I also tried it with Sunday Plus, but it appears that SP is not able to do widescreen.

In both cases, I can't figure out why they both seem wrong. Is there some other setting I missed? or is there a setting on an ATI mobility radeon 9000 for widescreen? Or something else?

projector is Dukane Imagepro 8052. I hope someone can help?

[dovprst]

Thanks Tone, I appreciate your explaining that. I kind of expected that. I'm trying to learn about 16:9. Next time we buy one, I'll make sure that it's able to do what we need. This is our first experience with projectors.

[timterhune]

We are in the market for a video system at our church. I am the new pastor here. I installed a video system at the church we served previously. I have Tim's book on Media Ministry, and read the appendix on going widescreen. I have spoken to a couple of church video equip. companies. They have all tried to steer me away from 16:9. I have been told that I would have to spend about $30,000 to get a decent widescreen projector. I was told the cheaper widescreen projectors are intended for home theater use and would not be good in a church. I was told these cheaper projectors are single chip DLP's so their color quality is not up to snuff. I was also told that the church presentation products are all set up for 4:3, so the only software I could use would be powerpoint. What about it? Am I being steered wrong? We are a small church with a limited budget, so I don't want to do the wrong thing here.

Thanks for any insight you can give.

Tim Terhune, Pastor

Faith Bible Church, Livonia, MI

16:9... I love it! Once you've been there, you can never go back. In brief - the 16:9 frame (even for data projection only) is much closer to our natural scope of vision. In practice: much less moving your head up and down, just eyes side to side!

With regards to presentation software, if you find yourself in a position where your software won't support 16:9 (YET!), what's to stop you from letterboxing all of your media- forcing the 16x9 frame into a 4:3 frame. Before you start kicking and screaming, the resolution doesn't look bad if you're working with RGB output at XGA (which most equipment now is more than capable of!).

It's important to remember that 16:9 is an anamorphic signal... Ever seen stretched video that didn't look right? Probably a result of someone playing back 16x9 video on a 4:3 monitor... If all of your video sources are set up for anamorphic 16:9 and your display units cater for this, sweet. But add a computer into the mix and it can get messy. The solution that I've worked with is a high-end scan converter from Folsom Research... This takes care of the video overlay, and you can configure the aspect ratio, position and size of the overlay. Using this solution, it's quite easy to overlay letterboxed 16:9 computer-based media onto an anamorphic signal.

James &

Originally Posted by clafhn

If all of your video sources are set up for anamorphic 16:9 and your display units cater for this, sweet. But add a computer into the mix and it can get messy.

I've found that many graphics cards will output the proper 16:9 ratio with the right drivers. The problem, from what I have researched, is more on the video side, since you have at least 2-3 types of 16:9 and add in the more common T.V./Camcorder 4:3 ratio.

We are in a transition stage. There will always be more than one type of 16:9 because movies will be shot with varying film (e.g. you will still have black bars on the top and bottom of your 16:9 display when you watch Lord of the Rings because it was filmed with a wider scope). Once 4:3 is completely out of the picture (pun intended), things will be much easier. I give it 5 years. By that time your church will want to upgrade its equipment to all native 16:9 .

Originally Posted by Tim Eason

The problem, from what I have researched, is more on the video side, since you have at least 2-3 types of 16:9 ...

Let's just clarify something here: there is only one 16:9 - a frame whose aspect ratio is 16 to 9 (or 1.7. In the world of film, there are many variations depending on the brand of film and what the director wants to work with. The two most common are 1.85 (which fits almost perfectly in a 16:9 frame) and 2.35 (directors tend to use this to provide a visual overload with their story). 2.35 is still letterboxed in a 16:9 frame, as Tim gave the example of Lord of the Rings.

When working with video and TV signals, 4:3 and 16:9 are about the only ratios you'll come into contact with, and the industry seems to be trying to keep it that way. (That's why DVDs either come in 4:3 and they're letterboxed or '16:9 enhanced', where it's encoded as an anamophic signal.)

In the meantime, we're stuck with two different formats. Here in Australia, all free-to-air broadcasts are required to be made in digital format and 16:9. In Europe, I hear that most analogue TV is in 4:3 and most digital TV is in 16:9; but I hear that the US are having trouble letting go of 4:3! In the interim, we'll see things like 14:9 which is halfway between the two - I'm told that the 4:3 broadcasters are letterboxing to that ratio to show 16:9 content on their stations.

Can't wait for the day when the change has been made once and for all!

James &

Types.... variations.... semantics

The US is taking longer to go wide mainly because of politics. I think the people are ready

On that note, Tim, I put this to everyone but especially to posters from the US. If you are considering any upgrade to your system, plan with 16:9 in mind. Not only does it make good sense for the future, but for once, it will put the church at the cutting edge. I love the potential of media, and it grieves me that the church is most of the time so far behind the 8-ball. As Tim said, the people are ready - so do it! 16:9 is such a more effective visual communication format. I am fortunate enough to be serving at a church that recently constructed a new facility which is incredibly technologically advanced, but I've also done it with great success at a small church with very limited equipment. Do it - you won't regret it!

James &

Originally Posted by Tim Eason

I've found that many graphics cards will output the proper 16:9 ratio with the right drivers.

This is my first post. Let me start out by saying that I have been doing a lot of research for our church's first video system. I can't tell you how much I've learned from this site. Thanks everyone!!!

Tone's articles and some of the rest of your comments have led me to seriously consider the 16:9 format. I think it would be very helpful especially in our situation since the area we have to project the image is limited more by height than width.

In looking at equipment the Sanyo PLV-70 with WXGA 1366x768 (2200 lumens) output looks like it might be just about what we need based on light measurements and Tone's formula, however I can't find any video cards that support this resolution. The ATI and NVidia cards only 16:9 output is 1920x1080 but then it seems I would have to use a scaler to convert it to 1366x768. Am I correct on this? What would this do to the quality of the image? Tim where are those cards or where do you get "the right drivers"?

I did check with several Worship Software vendors on 16:9 support. Easy Worship confirmed that they support it, Sunday Plus did not (future plans), Song Show Plus and Media Shout have not answered yet.

I did a search for "1366x768 graphics cards" (BTW, #4 on the search is an article on 16:9 by yours truly. Thanks again, Google!). That's a good place to start. However, the if graphics cards you are looking at will output 1920x1080, then I'm sure there is a lower setting of 1366x768. Kind of like how if you have a card that will output 1024x768, but you have a 14" monitor, you would want to set it lower to 800x600. It's the same principle. You're not loosing any quality by setting your graphics card lower. In fact, the card will be faster -- the the projection image will look great because you are sending its native resolution. Make sense?

I found an interesting article on the 4:3/16:9 transition:

The Projection Aspect Ratio Dilemma Part I
Projection Aspect Ratio Dilemma Part II

Send us some links to the cards that you are looking at. They should have specs on all of the 16:9 ratios that they will output.

Hope this helps,