Our gym sanctuary

[JeffM]

We are currently using our fellowship hall/gym for our worship area due to structural issues in the main sanctuary.
We have pumped our music to contemporary now we want to get away from the gymnasium looking lighting. The mercury vapor lamps just don't get it. Our stage lighting consists of a couple of flood lights and some colored light bulbs.
We want to change this big time. We want to spend a few bucks but not a lot due to we hopefully will be building within 5 years. Looking at the included pictures shows the stage with some sort of thing over the stage area hiding what lighting is there and our projector.
My thought was to use maybe 6 par56's shining at the ceiling to give an indirect lighting feel. I wanted to put some pars on the one set of beams that would light up the front of the stage where the singers and the preacher stand. I wanted to add some led's on this thing hovering over the stage to add color to the praise team. It's a small start but it's time to improve what we have where we are at. Any other ideas?
Not sure how many pars I would need or if some of those need to be gelled. Need a bit of help here.

[mstone133]

My thought was to use maybe 6 par56's shining at the ceiling to give an indirect lighting feel.

What is the purpose for these lights? I don't think they will be adequate for house lighting.

I wanted to put some pars on the one set of beams that would light up the front of the stage where the singers and the preacher stand.

Ellipsoidal fixtures will be far better for front lighting. Pay close attention to throw distance, beam angle, and lighting angle. Do you plan to simply wash the entire stage or will you want to highlight a soloist?

I wanted to add some led's on this thing hovering over the stage to add color to the praise team.

The lighting position from the thing doesn't appear to be ideal. Be sure to know the load rating of the rigging before you attach anything to it. Have you considered lowering the projection screen so that acts as video backdrop and mounting the LED's on a bar above the projection screen to provide rear color?

[JeffM]

Nothing about this ideal but I need to do something to make it better. The industrial lighting needs to go. I know everything isn't how or where it should be but I need to try and improve what we got.
I want to wash the stage when the band is playing and lightup the front of the stage when the minister is preaching.

[Brad Weber]

I think what mstone133 was getting at was first establishing what you're trying to do and any constraints such as what lighting positions are available, what loads can be supported, what power is available, whether you are looking for production lighting to supplement what is there or for the new lighting to serve as both production and general/house illumination, etc. For example, if you put everything directly overhead it lights the tops of people's heads real well but the people themselves may be in shadow, so are you stuck with using the locations of the current lighting, which is essentially all above the stage, or could you maybe have some lights in better locations for front, side and back lighting?

How do you plan to control the new lights? Are you thinking of some sort of dimming system and control console? Or simple hard switched on/off?

You might also think about how you are going to access the lights for aiming, replacing or changing gels, relamping, etc. Can you get a lift to them easily or might you want a batten you can lower?

Also keep in mind that anything in place more than 30 days cannot be considered temporary so everything will have to be properly installed and up to code.

[JeffM]

I wasn't planning any direct overhead lighting other than maybe some color. As stated in my message I wanted to use some pars on the wooden beams as shown in the pictures to light up the stage area. The angle is about right. The distance, without accurate measuring, is about 20' - 30' from the stage. I was going to start with some simple pc controlled lighting and eventually move to a console. All I wanted was to get rid of the stadium looking lights in the gym and have some control over the house lighting and finally put some light on the stage. The power requirements would have to be determined and obtained through our trustee board. All I was doing was trying to come up with something somewhat temporary to put a different atmosphere to our service.

[Esoteric]

Sorry it took me so long to reply. How much control do you have over this space to hang truss/run power/etc?

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by JeffM

As stated in my message I wanted to use some pars on the wooden beams as shown in the pictures to light up the stage area. The angle is about right. The distance, without accurate measuring, is about 20' - 30' from the stage.

You mentioned "on the one set of beams" but here are multiple beams and did not specify the beam to which you were referring. Since you did talk about the hanging element over the stage I assumed you meant the beam above that. It sounds like you may actually be referring to the beam opposite that one.

Originally Posted by JeffM

All I was doing was trying to come up with something somewhat temporary to put a different atmosphere to our service.

When it comes to electrical systems, code does not usually address "somewhat temporary" but rather temporary or permanent with temporary being less than 30 days. One reason this has been brought up is that if the existing electrical service and distribution can support a certain number and capacity of additional circuits with the service in place then that may factor into what you do. If it does not have the capacity to support the lighting you want to add then that could have a major impact on the associated work and cost.

I actually just went through a similar situation a couple of days ago where a Client got a quote for some production lighting and the first question their Facilities people asked was whether the quote addressed any electrical capacity and distribution required for the lighting proposed as if it did not that could significantly increase the actual cost to add the lighting.

[Steve Vanciel]

Originally Posted by Brad Weber

...with temporary being less than 30 days...

Can you provide a specific code citation for this definition of temporary?

In the National Electrical Code, NFPA 70, there is an Article 590, Temporary Installations. Under 590.3 Time Constraints there are four conditions given:

(A) During the Period of Construction. This assumes a controlled access construction site.
(B) 90 Days. This is specifically for holiday decorative lighting and similar purposes.
(C) Emergencies and Tests. Very specific and limited applications.
(D) Removal. ...shall be removed immediately upon completion of construction or purpose for which the wiring was installed.

Unfortunately, many have tried to apply Article 590 to Theatrical type installations. Instead, we should be refering to Article 520, Theaters, Audience areas of Motion Picture Studios and Television Studios, Performance Areas, and Similar Locations. This is where they type of work we do, in houses of worship, is properly addressed.

One key difference is that the term "portable equipment" is used rather than "temporary." There are specific flexible cord types that are allowable. Typically an installation will have a combination of "permanent" and "portable" electrical distribution and utilization equipment.

Article 520 points to Article 400 for the specific requirements for Flexible Cords and Cables. These include 400.7 Uses Permitted and 400.8 Uses Not Permitted. In particular, it states that flexible cords and cables shall not be used as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure. There are six additional prohibitions that could be applied if we try to take shortcuts with our systems.

For further guidance please consult a qualified electrical engineer.

SteveV
ETCP Certified Entertainment Electrician
Orlando, FL

[JeffM]

All I am trying to do is come up with some ideas on what it would take to accomplish what I want to do. The electrical work including truss work, code, electrical specs is handled by our trustee board.
I will leave out the word somewhat when I refer to temporary. I just need something to use to light up the area and not use the lighting in the ceiling. Light up the stage area when the band plays and light up the front of the stage so the pastor can be seen better. I don't know what we have for power. I do know it will take some professional help with power and/or rigging. I can't tell the board what we need until I get a grip on what it would take.
I need better photos to show better detail. The beam in the 4th photo left of the fan is a decent angle for lighting.

[Chkurgrnd]

I hear your frustration by the way you reiterate everything as much as you desire to get the job done. There are a couple factors here though...

Most of the guys that contribute to the forum are professionals in their particular field (ie. lighting, rigging, sound) and they have their own company and/or licenses that they make a living by. Insurance purposes aside, they want to keep everyone safe and still provide the best *free* customer service so they are going to pester with questions and specifics to make sure that you are happy and they have built a reputation for excellence as well. Thank God they want to serve on this forum as well!

It sounds like a situation where you might as well call yourself "portable" at the risk of needing to be sticky to codes at your facility. The church that I used to be part of met in a school gym and it serves as their facility still. The dimensions were about 120'x50' with a 30' vaulted and popcorn coated ceiling. We were after the same effect (trying to mask the off-white sterility of the room and the horrible fluorescent lighting) so we had some contacts that allowed us to borrow some DJ lights at no cost to us (fantastic!). We had access to 8 Par64 cans (500 watt bulbs) and 2 NSI dimmer packs. While this was elementary it served as a good practice round before we bought. Because of the portability we found 2 good light T-Bars and a Craigslist deal where we got 16 Par56, 3 dimmer packs (4 accent up front w/ color gels and the other 12 on the trees). The 56's gave us a good indirect lighting after we shot them up into the ceiling and the church has dimming capability. Overall, I think we spent $1000 on everything I just listed.

If you are going to wash the stage area, you may run into shadows if you don't adequately light from angles other than different angles from above. You might think about lighting from below the stage area in some spots, but that will prob mean more lights than just a few. That's been my expertise with lighting. I know the LED won't do as "warm" of a job for a large wash of an area, and most churches have the budget for the older Par cans. There are better setups than the NSI system I described and can be run by PC. I have heard Elation makes great stuff. My two cents though, see if you can do a practice run with rented equipment to see what meets ur needs, outside of hiring a pro at this point.

[JeffM]

I don't mean to sound frustrated it's I was looking at what might be needed not so much how. To me it's like I wanted help with a design and ideas from people that have done the same thing. Once I get some ideas on what can be done then I can go with how. Goes back to asking what time it is and I get how to build a watch. I am looking at stuff like, you need these colors mixed with white to get good skin tones or these colors effect mood or we have used this fixture and here is the effect we got.
I guess I just don't ask the right questions. That's my fault.

[[Director] drew ryan]

My tip is to never use Green as front light. Makes people look grey.

There are about as many ways to accomplish good lighting as there are colors in the light spectrum. One lighting designer will use Pink on one side and blue on the other with a lavender for top light. Another will use amber on one side and nothing on the other with a light blue on the top light. Some like side lighting to fill the stage.

One thing that you could do is go to http://www.churchstagedesignideas.co...stage-designs/ and see if there is anything there that you would like to emulate. This would help give a picture of what you want to accomplish.

A lot of the guys are asking the questions about truss and available power because that can determine what you are able to do. However, if you are committed to figure out what you want then figure out what it takes, then the infrastructure conversations can come in later.

I would want to make you aware that adding infrastructure to an existing building to accomplish a significant lighting design will be very costly.