Yet another small stage setup

[mcentrye]

Hi all,
We have a new stage in our youth room that I need to light. It is basically a quarter oblong curved 12" stage in the corner of the room. It comes out 24' on one wall and 16' on the other, with a curved front.

I have a small budget to start from scratch with. I'm trying to keep it at $2000 or less. There is no ambient light in the room (no windows). I'm thinking that I could get by with 8-10 PAR64's. I'd like a couple of LCD light bars (or similar LCD light that allow color control) for background lighting.

Usage will primarly be for a single speaker and a couple of people for worship. Hoping to have a band soon though.

Any suggestions? I'd like to have a controller that can handle basic dimmers like would be needed for the above, but also have the capability to control a couple of moving lights for future expansion. Prefer console solution instead of PC, but PC not out of the question if it helps stay in the budget.

What are you're suggestions for the PAR64's, LCDs and controller? Anything else I'm missing that I should be looking at as alternatives?

I've looked at the Elation Magic-260, but I'm not sure it can handle both dimmers and moving lights.

Thanks for your help.

[Esoteric]

I would suggest computer control. There are a lot of very good options out there now.

PAR64 units are cheap, the rub is lamps are not cheap (a lamp costs as much as the unit) and you have to have considerable dimmer power for them. For 9 PARs you would need 3 dimmer packs, and there are a ton of good, reasonable LED options, but you have to control your light (high ceilings would help this).

What ceiling height are you working with?

Do you have sufficient power for a setup like this? You would need at least 4 separate 20A circuits.

Mike

[mcentrye]

I'm going to need to have power ran for the lights. It's a new building, but we failed to have dedicated circuits ran for the stage lighting.

I'd much rather use LED front lighting, but it's my understanding that that's not a good option yet. Tell me if that's wrong. I don't have to use PAR64's that's just what I figured I'd need. It really is a fairly small area, so maybe I'm putting too much light. If there's a way to do this entirely with LCDs, I'd love to hear it.

The ceiling is typical open trusses for a metal building. The ceiling is sloped with the stage being in the corner of the low part of the ceiling. The back corner of the stage would have a ceiling height of around 13ft. At the front of the stage, it is higher (maybe 15'). The mounting point for front lighting would be a little higher.

Attached are a couple of pictures of the room before the stage was built. The wall you see is 12'. The left house left wall is where the stage comes out 20' (not 24' as I said in my original post), the right wall it comes out 16'. The 20' mark is right around the second outlet from the right. The light source you see was a temporary light. The house lighting are the dimmable cans you can see in the pictures.

FYI: There will be an arched truss (like Global Truss's arch system, but a little larger) in the center of the stage that will have an LCD on each side for video. I'm thinking of hanging different types of fabric from the center of the truss for either LCD backlighting or maybe environmental lighting with a projector.

I'd love to hear your ideas!

[D.R.HADDOCK]

There are very few LED lights that are bright enough for front lighting,
The few that are even close are expensive,
Unless you have a lot of money to play with I would stick with
conventinal lights for the front line.
Leds are useable on the fabrics, or on the backline for accents.

Which type of conventinal lights depends on a few things, like
Will there be video production involved?
Are there power restrictions?
What sort of atmosphere are you chasing?
Decore and general look of facilities.
Budget?

[mcentrye]

The budget is $2000. There is no immediate need for video production. We may video at some point for archive purposes. This is a youth environment. The colors of the room are brown and tan (kinda coffee house colors). Not really power restrictions as we're going to have to have new circuits ran to the area.

Thanks!

[Esoteric]

You can do LED front lighting, but it would be out of your budget range.

In fact, must more than a few PARs and some dimmers are going to be out of that range. I have done installs on rooms like that before, all conventional, a mix of conventional and LED, and all LED.

Mike

[mcentrye]

Yeah, I know. It's not a lot to work with. I think we're going to have to go with a typical 8 can conventional setup and maybe be able to do some kind of LED backlighting. So now the question is do I need 64's or would 58's be enough? Also, what would be the best LED backlighting for the buck? Lastly, which controller? I want the capability to add more LEDs or effects next year without having to replace the controller.

[tpichler]

You said you were open to PC control to stay on budget so I would recommend the Enttec USB Pro. Many software packages support the Enttec module and it really gives you power to expand at a great price. My opinion is that the little DJ type controllers are not a good investment when there is any chance of expanding in the future.

[Esoteric]

I never use anything other than PAR64's. They are cheap enough (although the lamps run an extra $5 a piece), and if you ever want to use them as back light (after you upgrade your front light to ERS units) PAR56's would be useless.

LED strips your best bet will be American DJ MegaPixel. It will get you the most coverage and the most light over that area for the money. There are stronger units, but they are either too expensive or they don't cover as large of an area.

MagicQ with the ENTTEC USB PRO is really the only way to go with your budget. You could go Freestyler with the ENTTEC USB PRO, but I am not a fan of Freestyler (most of their fixture profiles are wrong).

Mike

[btriple]

If you plan on lighting up an area for someone to be talking I would look into some Lekos (maybe Source Four Jr's due to the low ceilings). When our church first started all I had for front lighting where 8 par64 lights. Now that I have added two ETC Source Fours there is a big difference and we only use 575watt bulb so you can also use the shoe box dimmers. I have found some that work for what I need for around $70 and I got the Lekos off of ebay brand new. There are several sites out that that have used equip, just becareful.

And far as the LED's go, try to get the 1-watt version of anything, I know more money but the colors seems to come out better and more color options. Or atleast in the two different models we have.

I use Freestyler, easy setup, especially for a small setup like this. and very easy to explain to the other volunteers that don't really understand lighting controls

[mcentrye]

So with the Source 4 Jr's, how many are you recommending? What's the benefit of this light over a regular PAR light?

[Esoteric]

Any ERS (but particularly Source4 units) are just better lights. Better (glass) reflector, better lamp, whiter color (even when dimmed), more control over where light goes.

The downside is cost. PAR64 with lamp runs $50 or so. Source 4 Jr ERS units will run you $210 per unit. They are worth the cost but will destroy your budget.

So will 1W LED units. Good 1W units start in the $350 each range.

Keep in mind if you get Freestyler that you will have to rewrite most of your fixture profiles, so learn how to do that!

As far as shoebox dimmers avoid the $70 specials like the plague. The only shoebox in your price range worth looking at is the DMX20L from Elation.

Mike