does watts matter?

[Amazing001]

ok, i have 8 par56 fixtures (four on each side). we were wanting to upgrade for a brighter effect so we upgraded from 300wats to 500watts. heres the thing, when the bulbs arrived 4 didn't work. so we went ahead and put two of the 500w on each side with the 300w. it took about 2weeks for the replacements to come and 1 of the 500w had blown out already. so now, the fixtures went from four 500w on one side and three 500w on the other and one 300w. Now week to week these bulbs (500w) have been blowing out and shattering, and being replaced back with the 300w.

replacing these bulbs in 4weeks are expensive.
please give me your thoughts. Would it be

*the combo of the 300w and 500w?
*just cheap bulbs? (same place the 300w came from though)
*something to do with the lighting control? (we keep it all the way up)
*the lighting fixture, not being able to handle the 500w? (but i didn't think that would matter as long as it was 120v)

Please help

[waynehoskins]

I'd fault the manufacturer of the lamp, especially if it's not one of the Big Names .. by the way, whose lamps were you using?

Probably just a bad batch. Or shipping damage perhaps? Q500P56s don't usually fail, especially by shattering. The fixture isn't likely part of the equation, unless its ventilation is so terribly poor that the lamps cook themselves to death.

[bggowing]

I didn't think putting 500w bulbs into a Par56 can was recommended. Par64s have 500w bulbs but Par56s have 300w. Of course if I do find out you can do this then I've got a cheap way to upgrade our lights!

[waynehoskins]

Originally Posted by bggowing

I didn't think putting 500w bulbs into a Par56 can was recommended. Par64s have 500w bulbs but Par56s have 300w. Of course if I do find out you can do this then I've got a cheap way to upgrade our lights!

I've got to disagree with you there. P64s conventionally are lamped at 1K; 500 is as small as they go.

P56s can lamp at 500 with no problem, presuming the can is rated for it .. but these cheap crappy China lights are usually not rated for it.

[Gracetech]

Always go with a manufacture that has a Lumen rating and a hour rating. You have to look at all the specs' as a whole when purchasing lamps in order to get what you want. It's possible to get lamps of the same type that produce more lumens with less wattage but usually it's the other way around.

Always make sure your fixture is rated for the lamps you intend to put in them.

crt

[Amazing001]

we used bulbamerica. its the same company we used for the 300w.... but they were the cheapest we found.

[waynehoskins]

Originally Posted by Amazing001

we used bulbamerica. its the same company we used for the 300w.... but they were the cheapest we found.

That's the distributor. Who's the manufacturer? GE? Osram/Sylvania? Wiko? Eiko? Philips? If it's Cheap Lamps From China, I'd put my money on a bad batch or damaged shipment, especially if you're seeing them physically shatter.

[Steve Vanciel]

Originally Posted by Amazing001

...8 par56 fixtures (four on each side)...from 300wats to 500watts.

Total load going from 2400 Watts up to 4000 Watts. Are your dimmers and its power supply rated for this increase? If not, burnt out lamps will be the least of your troubles.

...when the bulbs arrived 4 didn't work...{and} *just cheap bulbs?

If they did not work on arrival, that would strongly suggest a poor product.

...about 2weeks ...and 1 of the 500w had blown out already. ....Now week to week these bulbs (500w) have been blowing out and shattering....{and} *the lighting fixture, not being able to handle the 500w?

This is an additional indication that the lamps are not well made. However, the shattering suggests other possible problems with overheating and/or poor fit in the fixtures. Also, it is possible that your 300W lamps are standard incandescents whereas the 500W lamps are halogens which operate at a much hotter temperature. Do check the specifications for the lamps. There are some that have a very short rated life (like a 200 hours average). Then check the specifications for the fixure. Is it rated (UL Listed) for a 500W halogen lamp?

*the combo of the 300w and 500w? ....

If the dimmer and supply power are adequate, the mixing of wattages is not an issue.

*something to do with the lighting control? (we keep it all the way up)

Again, if the dimmer can handle the load, the control should not be an issue.

(but i didn't think that would matter as long as it was 120v)

Voltage is just one of the values that have to be considered. Wattage and amperage will vary with changes in voltage. Resistance is another factor in the Ohm's Law equations. Also note that 120V is a nominal value. Rarely do you actually get that exact value from the power grid. And, the output of most dimmers is around 115V nominal (given a 120V nominal input).

SteveV
Orlando, FL

[Amazing001]

Excellent info! Thanks again for your help.

The bulbs say the manufactor is BulbAmerica on the website. Here are the specs of the bulbs i ordered.

referrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">

Order Abbreviation:	500PAR56Q/MFL 120V
General Description:	500W/120V Incandescent PAR56 Reflector Lamp External Mogul End Prong Base Medium Flood Beam

Product Information
Abbrev. With Packaging Info.	500PAR56Q HAL MFL 120V 12/CS 1/SKU
Approx. Lumens	8800
Average Rated Life (hr)	4000
Base	External Mogul End Prong GX16D
Beam Angle (deg)	30
Beam Type	MFL
Bulb	PAR56
Centerbeam Candlepower (cp)	40000
Class	C (gas)
Color Rendering Index (CRI)	100
Color Temperature/CCT (K)	2950
Diameter (in)	7
Diameter (mm)	177.8
Ecologic	YES
Family Brand Name	Large PAR
Filament	CC-6
Maximum Overall Length - MOL (in)	5
Maximum Overall Length - MOL (mm)	127
Nominal Voltage (V)	120.00
Nominal Wattage (W)	500.00

[waynehoskins]

Okay, pretty sure those are Cheap China Lamps. Firstly, they're half the cost of the normal (GE, Osram, ...) lamps of the same type. That's a big giveaway.

Secondly, they call them "Par Can Bulbs" and "Par 56 Bulbs". Huge red flag. Anybody who knows anything would call them by their proper name, "PAR Lamps". Just so you know: the bulb is only the glass envelope; the entire assembly (with filament, base, and so on) is a lamp.

Just to confirm, you were seeing the glass physically shatter?

[Amazing001]

good points...i didn't know that.

well, i only had the 'shatter' experience with one bulb last sunday. we have gels on the lights so we actually did not see it or have not seen it yet. but it gave off an awful shatter noise across the congregation sunday (imagine that!). And the men have not gotten up there yet to check it out, but i'm sure it shattered.

when the others bulbs went out, they just went out without any recognizable noise.

[Steve Vanciel]

Originally Posted by Amazing001

The PAR specification given is fairly typical for this class of lamp. Notice the "Q" in the Order Abbreviation. This indicates that it is a Quartz Halogen incandescent lamp and it will have a much higher operating temperature than a standard incandescent lamp.

Also, they list an average life of 4000 hours. This is typical for this class of lamp so for your's to burn out so quickly indicates either a manufacturing quality control problem OR an overheating issue with your application.

Can you give us the make and model of your PAR cans? Do you have a spec sheet for them that indicates what lamps they are rated for?

Finally, as an interesting side note, they list the Color Temperature as 2950 K. This is below the photo/video balanced temperature of 3200 K. and is the clue as to how the manufacturer can rate the lamp at 4000 hours. There is no free lunch. To gain in one area another has to give. For example, a 1000PAR64Q/MFL with 4000 hours ave. life also has a color temp of 2950 K but the FFR (1000 W, PAR64 quartz) with 3200K color temp rating only has an ave. life of 300 hours!

SteveV