Starter Lighting System - suggestions on pars, fresnels, intelligent...

[Allan Lester]

Our church is in a new facility and we have no "real" lighting other than the flourescents for the house lighting. We do have a few "department store" lights that the youth group uses just to give some color as well as one tree with 4 PAR 38s and an American DJ T4 controller.

I am wanting to add some additional lights as well as dimmer packs and a "real" controller. These would be used primarily for youth events and drama productions. The room we are in is only 45 feet deep by 60 feet wide with a 9 foot drop ceiling. (We are in a strip center.) The stage is 10 feet deep. As you can tell, this is a fairly small room with a very low ceiling.

We are also on a VERY limited budget. I would like some recommendations on lighting equipment to augment what we have. I have used the NSI MC7016 in the past. However I am thinking I want something programmable and I want DMX outputs (I know this is an option on the MC7016 but we did not use this) so the equipment I purchase today can be used in the future as we expand.

I would also like to add some intelligent lights to add some excitement to the youth meetings. For starters I am looking at something like the American DJ Pocket Scanner. I know these are extremely low tech, but I think they will do what we want for now. Should I get a controller that can do both conventional fixtures and intelligent or should I treat the two as separate systems (I don't envision incorporating intelligent lighting into our drama productions any time soon)?

As for lighting, should I get some more PAR cans (if so which size) and mount them in the ceiling or should I go for some lekos? I had ETC Source Four and Source Four PARs at my last church and loved them. I am just wondering with the small dimensions I am working with if these would work well.

I know that nothing will be ideal with this limited amount of space. However anything will be better than what we have now.

[Nathan J]

Take a look at the Martin MX-1 intelligent lights. They run about $480.

[Allan Lester]

I have looked at the MX-1s and they are definitely a huge step up from the Pocket Scanners. I will definitely take this into consideration. I am trying to convince everyone (myself included at times) that it is better to wait a little longer and get something that will last rather than buy something today that you will throw away tomorrow. Of course if the price difference is huge it might make sense to go with something inexpensive today, knowing that you will have to upgrade in the future. Sometimes you have to start somewhere.

I was not aware that the MX-1s were that cheap. They are close enough I will try to hold out for them.

Now, any recommendations on PAR vs. leko, controller, dimmer packs?

[[Director] drew ryan]

Pars are OK if you are doing a stage wash. They have little control to the beam. A Fresnel is a better choice for wash as the light is more even accross the field and you have a little beam control.

Lekos, A.K.A. Ellipsoidals, Are a great choice for controled lighting. My favorites are the ETC Source Four lights. They are top of the line and a bit pricy, but they rock IMHO.

Allan,

It is hard to give a recommendation because there are still many unknows but because you are in a very small place with a small budget I would hold off on the moving lights and invest in the best conventional lighting system you can get.

For a console I would look at the LSC MINIMUM which is distributed by Applied Electronics in the US priced under $500. (it is an Austrailian built console) Which has a lot of features for it's small price tag as well as being solidly built.

For fixtures I would invest in ETC Source Four PARnel's or Source Four PAR's. These are great fixtures and very cost effective over the long run. I would stay away from ellipsoidals because you will spend at least twice as much per fixture and the short throw distance and low ceiling height limit thier effectiveness. If you are worried about light spill then you can invest in barn doors.

For dimming I would look at the Entertainment Technology Dimmer bars or the Lightronics Dimmer Bars. The ET dimmer bars are built better but cost more.

If you can't live without the moving lights then treat them as seperate entities as good moving light/ conventional controllers start at $3500 and head up.

There are other products out there that would work for your application these are just a few that I would recommend.

I hope this helps.

Greg Persinger

P.S. If you need a lighting company in Houston I highly recommend Stagelight. I work with the Nashville office on a regular basis (the home office is in Houston) and the company is great to work with and good prices.

[sempei13]

Now, I don't have any specific companies in mind, so this might require a Google search, but... There are companies that specialize in used lights from New York (esp Broadway and off Broadway). They're much less expensive than new. I second the elipsoidals and fresnels. I'd steer clear of cheaper intelligent lights. We can't keep a one running at Quest (even for an hour). As for the ceiling, what about losing the tiles over the stage, and hanging the lights from black pipe above where the tiles were. They could peek out a little, but leave plenty of space for people's heads.

Paul

[Allan Lester]

Thanks for the advice. I do plan on getting rid of the row of ceiling tiles and putting a black pipe or truss in the ceiling. The fixtures would hang slightly below the grid. The A.D. Players (local christian theater group) do this and it works quite well. They also built up a black vertical wall around the lights so the rest of the stuff in the ceiling is not exposed.

I have rented equipment from Stagelight here in Houston before and am planning on contacting their sales department for further recommendations. I was thinking about going it alone (having done so successfully at my previous church) but have decided that it would be a better use of God's resources to have a professional at least take a look at our facility and give some good recommendations.

I will also probably skip the moving lights for now. They were primarily just for effects for the youth services. I think some colored gels on the conventional lights will have to do for now.

Thanks again!

The layout at my church sounds like it's similar to yours. Personally what we use is 8 parcans and 4 pinspots. We also use the Stage Control Package put out by LSC/American DJ. It works well for us. I'm considering getting a moving light just because I have problems with the solos for the Christmas program standing where they'll be in the spot, and we don't have room for a regular followspot.

[David H.]

For Intelligent Lighting we use Chauvet Intimidators which do a great job and for the price you cant beat it. $300.00

Here is a link to see a demo on the Intimidator. http://www.chauvetlighting.com/syste...timidator.html

I had looked at that light actually. Yet the one thing I don't like about it, is it doesn't dim, just strobes, or is immediately on. At least that's what it looks like from the DMX configuration. Answers to some of the questions posed:
1) Control surface - how easy is it to follow a person moving around? Do you have a touch screen, mousing surface or faders (X and Y axis)?
The solos don't move around. Basically, I would still have an X on the floor showing them where to stand. Then if for some reason they're a little too far to one side, I can just slightly move the slider and it moves so they're now in the light.
3) Can you color correct the fixture to match your theatrical fixtures? Especially important for live video...
I would only be using the white when using the spot. Generally all my other lights have gels in them. We haven't gotten to live video yet, thank goodness. We do video tape the program, but they already have so many problems with that, that I just let them do their own little thing. Occasionaly they complain to me, and I want to say "Get a better camera" but instead I just smile and nod.

Actually, when it comes to video and lighting stuff, we don't have too many problems any more. The first year I did lighting (we only use "stage" lighting for the Christmas program and for the big puppet show we do during vbs) we had major problems. Yet that year all we had for lights really was two clamp worklights hanging off the chandeliers and all the control I had over them was on and off. Now, three years later, we have managed to build up a collection of stage lights and dimmers. We only had one problem this year with lighting and video, and we ended up just living with it. It wouldn't be possible to attend one of the seminars, unless there was one really close to where I live. I'm the only one who knows how to run the light system at my church, and we have no light budget, which I'm hoping to change sometime in the near future. I'm also hoping to find someone else interested in lighting, so we can get a team going.

Josh,

Although I don't know all of the details about your situation, the more cost effective practical soulution to your problem is to work with the "Talent" and let them know the importance of hitting thier mark.

Also spend some time teaching them to "feel" when they are in the light and out of the light. Then when they are in the wrong place and in the dark they will know that they are and can take steps to correct it.

Although many amature actors think that the lighting guys light to them, this is incorrect. I spend many days and weeks rehearsing and choerographing lighting sequences where the talent is required to hit their mark. If they miss it they are in the dark, the director makes a note and the talent is reminded of their mistake.

This is the case for theater, rock and roll and TV using both conventionals, moving lights and followspots. Lighting a production is a team effort and the talent need to be part of that team. If you light it they will come (to the light) otherwise they are left in the dark.

Here are some tips:

-Spike talents marks on the stage with Gaff tape.

-Show the talent their marks before rehearsal with the lights on.

-Move them in and out of their light and let them learn when they are in and out of it.

-Discuss with the director the importance of the talent hitting their marks.

At this time with only 8 PAR cans and 4 Pinspots you would probably be better off purchasing additional conventional lighting instead of moving lights, especially lower quality moving lights.

Additional PAR cans and dimming is always a sound long term investment and I'm sure it would have a positive impact on your video quality as well.

I hope that helps.

Greg Persinger