Bassist guitarist needing help and encouragement

Hey folks, first time poster here and I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to read my rather lengthy post. I’m 45 years old and for most of my professional life I have been a part time ministry of music. Since returning to my home church (which seats about 1200), I have started playing bass guitar. I’m no where close to what I hope to be as a guitarist, but play well enough to use my talent in the morning service. My problem, anytime my combo amp (Genz Benz 100 watts, 1X15, turned up two notches) is loud enough for me to hear myself I’m asked to turn it down. I’m not playing with a praise and worship band, but with an ensemble that consists of a 9 ft. grand piano, a keyboardist (playing a synth, and a drum machine) and a $250,000 pipe organ. Everything but my bass and the pipe organ is mic’ed or DI’d into the house system (a cluster box dropped from a 40? foot ceiling.) The position from which I sit during the music service is less than 6’ feet from a 60 piece choir and about 20’ feet from the organ pipes that are about 15’ ft above my head. The cluster fold back which the mic’ed choir, piano, keyboards, and worship leader is sent to is almost directly over my head. My combo amp (turned up two notches) is up against the back of my seat as close as I can get it, tilted about 10 degrees upward towards my back and in front of me is a modesty rail less than 4 feet in front of the amp.

I know what I really need to solve this problem but the church does not have the money at this time to invest in an IEM system. Realizing that the other musicians I play with (which keep asking the worship leader if I can turn it down, are classically trained, so am I, but in voice) seem like they are just putting up with me because the worship leader is the one who’s giving me this opportunity to play, I’m about ready to throw in the towel.

I’m looking into buying a headphone amp, (PreSonus HP4 Discrete 4-Channel Headphone Amp) and using the DO plug from the combo amp to plug into the headphone amp, so that I can use my shure e3’s to hear myself better. If you kind folks have any suggestion I would appreciate it so much. I’m not looking to feel the beat (although what bassist doesn’t like to feel the ground move beneath them! ) I just want to hear myself without having to thump my fingers off. Thanks Again.

[[Admin] PHugger]

How about a 'ButtKicker' system? One of our resident geniuses (Gracetech) posted a DIY project where he built his own. It may solve your problem - take a look HERE.




PCH

[bass-notes]

Welcome aboard! Being a fellow church bassist, I certainly can sympathize with you. The first church I played in had a worship team much like yours. Classical pianist, organ, and guitar. When we added drums and bass, there was a time of adjustment and education for everyone, including my fellow band members, sound team, and the congregation. Be patient and humble.
Some random musings:
- Communication is important with your fellow worship team members. Why is it that they want you turned down? Can they not hear themselves? Are they not used to playing with a bass? Talk to them about how you are struggling to hear yourself and ask if they have some suggestions.
- What does your worship leader have to say about your concerns? Ultimately as the leader of the team, he needs to be able to explain to the other musicians that you aren't getting enough volume to hear yourself.
- Have you experimented with the platform set-up? Is there a way to rearrange the musicians set-up so that you can get a little distance between you and those who are having difficulty with your volume. Try to break through the "this is the way we've always been setup" mindset.
- What does the sound person have to say? Can he hear you? Since he doesn't have control of your volume, does he want more of you or less of you? Any reason why you aren't giving him a DI feed so that he has some control your level in the house. There would be better mid and upper freq response as a 1x15 on the floor isn't going to do much in those ranges, much less fill a 1,200 seat facility.
- Personally, I've found a 1x15 cabinet to be muddier and harder to hear clearly as a platform monitor system than a 2x10 system.
- Have you experimented with your bass amp position? Due to sound reflection, another musician could be in a zone where the sound is actually louder than what you are hearing. Moving away from the bass cabinet may also enable you to hear it better too.
- With the headphone amp and ear plugs, you may have problems hearing the musical cues from the worship leader if all you are listening to is your bass. Is there an extra aux send off the main sound board that you could tap into with your headphone amp? You would have to send the board a DI to get your bass back via this method.
- Could the person(s) who is asking you to turn down be having problems hearing themselves? With the synth and pipe organ, I suspect that there is a lot of low end already. Can their monitor setup be adjusted so that they are able to hear themselves better?
- Ask someone you trust about your bass playing skills. Could the other musicians want you to turn down because your playing needs improvement? Ensure that you are practicing regularly and working on your skills.
- Pray regularly about this! Ask that the solutions to this problem be revealed to you.
- Most importantly - Hang in there!

[Mark Finley]

I've used headphones for years, going directly into the DI. On my system I send a aux back through the mixer wth a headphone mix just for me, but you may not be in a situation where you can ask them to do that.

Try this, Use a Direct box to send your signal to the mains, and then use the 1/4" out of the direct box to send a signal to some sort of small headphone amp.. Wear single sided headphones so you can hear what goes on around you, and you will be able to hear yourself, everything around you, and the equipment you will be lugging will fit in your bass case, and can even be battery operated.

If you want to see my set up, PM me anytime and I'l give you a tour. We might be having a DFW gathering at my church in early november, so please come to that.

[RiveraRa]

Although Im not a bass player nor a sound engineer..Ive heard somewhere on this board that you should sit/stand about 6 feet away from the amp. I believe its due to the wave length of the frequencies a bass puts out. Or...I could be completely wrong...but at least I sound smart

[SoundDudeDave]

Originally Posted by RiveraRa

Although Im not a bass player nor a sound engineer..Ive heard somewhere on this board that you should sit/stand about 6 feet away from the amp. I believe its due to the wave length of the frequencies a bass puts out. Or...I could be completely wrong...but at least I sound smart

I guess that could be true, but when I play bass, I can sure hear the amp better when I'm 2 feet from it than when I'm 6 feet away...
We have a folding chair and the bass amp right behind where the pianist sits and the bassist can choose to sit in the chair, or stand about 6 feet away. Most of the bassists sit in the chair which is about 2 feet away from the amp.

The thing I don't understand is, if you can't turn it up loud enough to hear it when you're that close to it, how can you hear it AT ALL in the house mix, especially in a 1200 seat auditorium?

[Gracetech]

I've fixed a many situation like yours using defferent methods like the forementioned tactile pad. In your situaltion to save you some money you might try placing your combo on the ground facing up and put one of your feet on the amp. This will cause structural resonance in your body and help you to hear the low notes. If this is still not enough i would sugest get a Rolls PM351 and use it as a preamp/headphone monitor system. Later on if you like you can build one of my tactile pads to go along with the Rolls PM351 and have one heck of a quite bass rig.

Oh and welcome neighbor, i'm sure you will enjoy CMN and it's wonderful members.

crt

[SoundDudeDave]

You could just sit on the amp...

[stevegoad]

I've tried several different ways, and Mark's way works best for me (especially since we go direct input into the board, so without the headphones, I am completely working off of house sound).

Headphones work great

[johnh]

Howdy!

I'm a bassist for our WT as well (and also nearly 45. ). I go through a DI and into the sound system with no external amp. The drummer and I share a Fender 1270P stage monitor - not without it's problems as he likes a different monitor mix than I do but, I think we've worked through it lately. I can hear myself, though softly, and I can hear myself in the house as well.

Be patient, stick with it, find out what's going on as was suggested above and maybe try the headphones or buttkicker thing.

Cheers!!!

[blwells45]

Well, first, let me welcome you to CMN. Secondly, I do think that the communication suggestions by bass-notes are actually the place to start. Before you go trying to fix a problem, it is probably important to figure out what it is. I play the bass (although I am just a wanna be) and I know that if I was told to turn it down so no one could hear it, I'd give it up. Sort of pointless. I'd try to figure out why people want it turned down, and then go from there. All the headphones, DI's in the world won't change people who just hate the bass.