Behringer Powerplay 16 Personal Monitoring System?

[rePete]

Hi all,

I've not been a B*****ger fan in the past, but this one has me looking. I've also heard they recently had some involvement with Midas so maybe the quality will go up.

Any thoughts?

Pete

[cmchamp]

Pete - see this thread Aviom or MyMix
and my matrix comparison of features.

Yes, the product family to the PM16, S16 and X32 products are co-developed with cooperation from both Midas and Klark-Technic.

It is my understanding, from correspondence with Uli himself, that all products from The Music Group are manufactured on the same campus/facility which is why Behringer now has a 3 year warranty for US purchased products.

C.

[Cliff]

So Cory - What is your take is quality up on all products?

[cmchamp]

Cliff - there have been a couple of threads regarding that.
Here's the short. If you've followed my threads, I prefer to recommend "inexpensive" gear that I've actually used. Also, know, I'm a dealer/contractor and sell a lot of different brands of gear. Also know that many of those manufacturers, including Behringer, monitor these boards.

The Xenyx lines of mixers - great. I purchased one last summer so that while my A&H GL2 was being repaired I wouldn't be without a mixer. Guess what's still in my portable rack. The XL1600.
I also have an NU3000 and did have 2 B212D active speakers which I had to sell late last fall to pay some bills.

I have been pleased with the build quality and sound quality of the Behringer products I've used in the past year.

Remember, they're a tool, just like any other piece of audio equipment, has a place and a situation where it's appropriate.

When I picked up Behringer as a contractor/dealer, I did it to replace the Alto Pro Audio products which were dropped by Yorkville several years ago.

C.

[pdc]

We have had two out of three Xenyx large channel count mixers DOA. The one that did not die had non-functioning FX. Sent it to Behringer twice. It was returned twice, un-repaired. We had a 16 channel last about a month. Pass on it all. They sucked with a two year warranty. Adding another year and doing a press campaign is not going to improve them.

[rePete]

ok, so now we're really interested in this thing. Trying to sort out the interconnects and specifically power to each monitor unit. Does each unit have to go to a hub output on its own or can one hub output power more than one monitor device? or put another way - if you daisy chain the rj45's does the 'thru' signal pass power over ethernet?

Thanks
Pete

[cmchamp]

I'll ask for clarification. The literature says up to 48 are daisy chainable, but I can't believe that includes power.

[rePete]

OK so here's the update on our system:

I attended Sweetwaters GearFest last Friday. Behringer was there with the x32 and PM16! I am interested in the PM16 so I was happy about that. It looks solidly built, enough. Probably as 'durable' as an aviom with all of it's plastic. The disappointment was that because of some glitch in the routing of the x32 they couldn't get any audio to the PM?! So I am left to still not ever hearing the PM .... but ....
Because Sweetwater had the system on sale for two days only I ended up ordering eight mixers, an input module and a hub. The total?, Under $1900!! More bad news is that they are backordered with no real promise date yet.

So now I am in the process of trying to get the rest of the cabling I need to actually operate the system. I am looking for some good cat5 that will lay flat like mic cable. Don't know if that exists yet. I think I'll also need to fabricate some sort of custom snake to go from inserts on the console to balanced input on the input module. There are only inputs, no returns on the input module so ...

I'll keep you posted.
(Thank God Sweetwater has a 30 day return policy AND doesn't charge my card until the gear ships)

edit: The power over ethernet question I had was answered. POE is NOT daisy chain-able. Once the signal goes into a mixer from a hub or input module the power is NOT sent back out the rj45 on the mixer, you have to use a wall wart ps to power any units downstream from the first mixer.

Pete

[BenHT]

We just tried our P16-I and M's for the first time tonight by plugging them into the direct outs of a small desk at our temporary church location. Apparently we might be one of the first to use them in the UK

First impressions were fantastic!

Very easy to set up, very easy to use. One musician said it was the best monitor sound he's ever had at our church. Build quality seems good and it all just worked.

It was strangely fantastic having an almost silent stage for the first time too.

cmchamp - I think if you daisy chain them you have to power them individually. The P16-M box includes a PSU and a good quality ethernet cable which was about 3 or 4 metres long.

Looking forward to learning the pros and cons of IEMs - glad they have a limiter the musician controls!

[rePete]

Ben,

We've just got our system running. First impressions are very good. Indeed, in each box with the personal monitor is a shielded cable, 15 feet by my yardstick.

I ran about 1000 feet of cat5 for three terminations on the stage as well as 2 more cat5's for dmx. Just finishing the last of the work tomorrow and then to play around with the worship team the rest of the week.

My disappointments so far are: no ethercon connectors in the system and the legends on the mixers seem difficult to read (at my age).

I spent a few minutes today making a labelling template in ms word which I printed onto label stock. Cut them up and fitted them onto each mixer, we have 8.

More info to come, but this looks like a winner if the reliability stays good.

Pete

[BenHT]

but this looks like a winner if the reliability stays good.

Yeah it really does. We've also now used it as a feed for an overflow room -impressed with the length of cat5 it will work on, must have been at least 50m.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by cmchamp

It is my understanding, from correspondence with Uli himself, that all products from The Music Group are manufactured on the same campus/facility which is why Behringer now has a 3 year warranty for US purchased products.

I finally received some clarification regarding the Behringer warranty. First, the products have a one year warranty, however MUSIC Group will extend that coverage to three years if you register the product online within 90 days of purchase. If you don't register the product, the warranty period is one year. Cory, maybe you can address how that works for dealers and contractors as far as when the 90 days starts, who has to register the products, etc.

It is also a limited warranty. Internal components, internal connections and firmware support would be covered for the three year period, however faders, switches, LCD displays, LEDs, pots and anything 'acted upon by an external force' (e.g. I/O connectors and so on) are limited to one year of coverage even with the extended warranty. Internal power supplies are covered for the basic warranty period, external power supplies for just 90 days.

So for products with few external controls and connections that appears to be an effective three year warranty. But for a product like the X32 or P16 with lots of user controls it seems that many of the components most likely to be a point of failure fall under the one year limited exclusions. To be fair, one year warranty coverage is common for digital mixers, but with Behringer touting their three year warranty it would have been nice to see fewer limitations and exclusions.

In particular, apparently some significant portion of the cost savings on the X32 comes from the use of brand new, lower cost, in-house developed and manufactured motorized faders. Since Behringer is heavily promoting the X32 having a three year warranty, it would have been nice, and rather reassuring, for Behringer to include the faders in the extended three year coverage. Limiting the faders, and any other direct user interface components, to one year of warranty coverage seems to make the effective warranty coverage much more one year regardless of whether you register the product or not. Again, not a poor warranty compared to the competition, just not in practical application what the marketing seems to be offering.