Upstairs Sound booth

[Ebroach]

Do any of you guys know of magazine/white paper etc articles concerning the Pros/Cons of having a sound booth upstairs at rear of sanctuary..

Got a friend fixing to build church and that is where they are wanting to put it..

[Arlin]

http://www.churchsoundcheck.com/wswc.html

[bpalermini]

Just tell them we all voted and they are wrong. Main floor center is what the experts said is best. Sound guy needs to hear what most of the audience hears.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by bpalermini

Just tell them we all voted and they are wrong. Main floor center is what the experts said is best. Sound guy needs to hear what most of the audience hears.

Although many suggest main audience area and off center, in fact that is what Curt suggests in the document Arlin referenced.

Curt's article addresses several of the related technical aspects but it does not address the aspect of how this can affect the people. I always find it rather ironic to work with churches that are very focused on the worship experience but then want to isolate their volunteers from sharing in that experience. In many cases, both the people and the production can benefit from their being part of the congregation rather than being physically segregated from it.

In my experience resistance to having a mix position in the listener area is usually related to either ignorance of the related issues, which you can hopefully address through education, to the audio quality not being a priority, which seems to perhaps suggest a larger issue, or to having conflicting interests (e.g. the Architect or Interior Designer that doesn't like the way it looks), in which case they may not be open to any discussion. If people are willing to listen then the value of the person mixing hearing what the listeners hear is usually not that difficult to convey. If they're not willing to listen then all the articles and white papers in the world may not help.

[mrozman22000]

Speaking from experience, the upstairs booth is not the way to go if you can prevent it. Our soundroom was implemented in the early 80's in the attic area above the Sunday School rooms at the rear of the sanctuary. I have two 3x2 windows that allow me to see and "hear" (?) the audio. It is like a reverse funnel, trying to scoop the house audio through the windows to get a sense of what is going on. To truly judge what the audience hears, I have to stick my head out the window and lean over the edge a little bit. One other issue, is that being nearly eye level with the speakers, I get a larger dose of the SPL coming straight at me, so when I do "hear" the outside sound it's still not what the audience hears. Unfortunately the designers did not take this into account when the church was built in the 60's

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by mrozman22000

Unfortunately the designers did not take this into account when the church was built in the 60's

You have to consider that the role and function of audio in churches was also typically quite different at that time. The challenge is often that some Architects, Interior Designers, General Contractors, church leaders and so on still associate what was common years ago when they think of worship audio, whether it is actually applicable or not.

Despite years of trying to educate people I still routinely encounter many even in the design and construction industry who view acoustics, audio, video and lighting as things you add to a completed space rather than their being integral elements of the space and its function as is increasingly the case.

[tdangelo]

Originally Posted by Brad Weber

In my experience resistance to having a mix position in the listener area is usually related to either ignorance of the related issues, which you can hopefully address through education, to the audio quality not being a priority, which seems to perhaps suggest a larger issue, or to having conflicting interests (e.g. the Architect or Interior Designer that doesn't like the way it looks), in which case they may not be open to any discussion. If people are willing to listen then the value of the person mixing hearing what the listeners hear is usually not that difficult to convey. If they're not willing to listen then all the articles and white papers in the world may not help.

Brad,

Excellent points!

Production always has and I suppose always will be a compromise. Where your audio guy really wants to put his speakers verses where he can, where your video director really wants to put cameras verses where he can, and where your lighting guy really wants his lights verses where he can are all issues that we as professional tech arts people compromise on each and every day.

There are other items however which we cannot compromise on and still fulfill the mandate that our supervisor has given us. It is then that we must respectfully speak up and explain how the decision will impede our execution of the instructions previously given. It is simply a matter of communicating back two bits of information which appear contradictory. It is for this reason that we must have a thorough understanding (beforehand) of the task and priorities at hand as given by our supervisor and not to project our own priorities on to the matter.

In my mind and assuming a contemporary worship style, where the mix position is located is one of those items which should not be compromised on beyond your ability to still fulfill the mandate. You must (generally) be located where you need to be to adequately hear if you stand a fighting chance of fulfilling your responsibilities.

Having an audio mix position be dictated by the architect or designer is as ridiculous as having the tech team dictate the scene portrayed in the new stain glass window or the color of the new carpeting. If the tech team does not have the clout to convince leadership I suggest that “an expert” be consulted. If leadership will not listen to the expert I suggest it might be time to evaluate one’s position in that ministry.

[wogster]

Originally Posted by mrozman22000

Speaking from experience, the upstairs booth is not the way to go if you can prevent it. Our soundroom was implemented in the early 80's in the attic area above the Sunday School rooms at the rear of the sanctuary. I have two 3x2 windows that allow me to see and "hear" (?) the audio. It is like a reverse funnel, trying to scoop the house audio through the windows to get a sense of what is going on. To truly judge what the audience hears, I have to stick my head out the window and lean over the edge a little bit. One other issue, is that being nearly eye level with the speakers, I get a larger dose of the SPL coming straight at me, so when I do "hear" the outside sound it's still not what the audience hears. Unfortunately the designers did not take this into account when the church was built in the 60's

It may not be the 60's designers fault either, you need to find some old codger that has been around since the beginning who was old enough to know when they decided to put the sound system where it is. It may have originally been somewhere else.

[Josh Scott]

It's a great idea if you want to get in shape walking up and down the stairs, have walkie talkies laying around you want to use between someone in the auditorium and the board op, or you have budgeted for a new digital console that will let you mix remote from an iPad.

Those are the solutions/complaints I get from any church I talk to that had an upstairs sound booth. Most where telling me how thankful they are they got the budget to move it downstairs.

Also remember some people have a rough time with stairs and this can limit your volunteer base.

[[Admin] osborn4]

Originally Posted by Josh Scott

Also remember some people have a rough time with stairs and this can limit your volunteer base.

I'll say. My brother-in-law built a sound room for a church that is accessed by an attic ladder to save room. I went up to look at thier projection computer and my 51 year old knees could barely make it. I did not do that twice.

[cw4u]

Ours is upstairs and even with a speaker dedicated for the FOH booth, it's still not the same as the sound on the floor which has caused quite a bit of complaints at times.

[pdc]

Originally Posted by Ebroach

Do any of you guys know of magazine/white paper etc articles concerning the Pros/Cons of having a sound booth upstairs at rear of sanctuary..

Got a friend fixing to build church and that is where they are wanting to put it..

Fine. They want to put it up there? Let 'em'. There are many ways to mix on an iPad down in the audience wirelessly. This is all moot anymore, IMNSHO.