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General Audio All things about sound are discussed here.

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Old Monday, October 24th, 2011, 04:21 AM
New Church Media Member

 
 Join Date: Mar 2011 
 Last Online: Tuesday, January 3rd, 2012 
New Church Stage and Sound setup

Hi there.
Looking for some advice for a new stage and sound setup.
We are in the midst of building a new church and getting the plans approved. I have been asked to manage the sound and stage setup which will include, av setup, lighting, projector, location of musicians etc. Basically the technical side of things.

Just some background information on our church.
We are a small church - roughly 150. Our current building is quite old and we haven't had a decent system setup, wiring and audio etc. So We are not really quite sure how to go about setting up this new church / what to consider.
Our new building will cater 200-300. I have attached a floor plan of the new church building and thought it would be great to get some suggestions on setting up this hall for sound and staging. Starting from scratch.

These are the areas that I need to cover.
1. Sound system / Speakers - Location and How many is needed
2. Lighting and Projector Rig
3. Stage setup for musicians - location
4. Wiring setup and ideas for instruments,mics, feedback speakers etc

Really appreciate your suggestions. Happy for you to illustrate on the floor plan your thoughts if that is easier.

Thanks everyone
Reuben
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File Type: jpg NewChurch_FloorPlan.jpg‎ (188.6 KB, 75 views)
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Old Monday, October 24th, 2011, 07:46 AM
stevelam's Avatar
AVL System Designer

 
 Join Date: Dec 2009 
 Last Online: Wednesday, March 27th, 2013 
Could you give us the actual measurements on the room? Length Width and Height.
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Old Tuesday, October 25th, 2011, 12:21 AM
Gracetech's Avatar
ubergeekimus maximus

 
 Join Date: Mar 2005 
 Last Online: Sunday, November 30th, 2014 
Materials used in the space and where they are used would help also.

crt

BTW welcome to CMN!
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Old Tuesday, October 25th, 2011, 01:20 AM
waynehoskins's Avatar
The Crazy Analog Guy

 
 Join Date: May 2006 
 Last Online: Friday, December 5th, 2014 
Style of music as well, at least a generalization. Rock-and-roll will have different system and acoustic needs than choral-and-orchestral.

My first thought, even without knowing dimensions, is that you have a very wide and shallow stage, and the seating mirrors its wide flat front. As drawn, very few people -- in the front rows especially -- are facing center stage. An arced-front stage with seating that follows the same arc is a popular approach that seems to work well; it's worth consideration here.
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Old Tuesday, October 25th, 2011, 03:59 AM
New Church Media Member

 
 Join Date: Mar 2011 
 Last Online: Tuesday, January 3rd, 2012 
Hi there.
Thanks for your questions.
I'll try my best to answer them.

1. Dimensions (Attached Front plan - hope this helps)
2. Materials Used in the space (floor and stage Will be carpeted, the walls are 2 layer 13mm jib noiseline - plastered) Attached Example only of seating and possibly what the hall material would be like.
3. Style of music (general praise and worship, not really charismatic - Our Sunday would often consist of a pianist, guitarist, bass, worship leader, and backup singer. Small band.

Great suggestion on the arched stage layout and seating. I really see the value in that. Thanks.

Happy to answer any other questions. And thanks for your time and input.

Cheers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NewChurch_FloorPlan2.jpg‎ (72.6 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg NewChurch_FloorPlan3.jpg‎ (61.1 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg Hall_example.jpg‎ (14.3 KB, 37 views)
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Old Tuesday, October 25th, 2011, 09:42 AM
Church Media Mentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reub3n View Post
We are in the midst of building a new church and getting the plans approved. I have been asked to manage the sound and stage setup which will include, av setup, lighting, projector, location of musicians etc. Basically the technical side of things.

Just some background information on our church.
We are a small church - roughly 150. Our current building is quite old and we haven't had a decent system setup, wiring and audio etc. So We are not really quite sure how to go about setting up this new church / what to consider.
Our new building will cater 200-300. I have attached a floor plan of the new church building and thought it would be great to get some suggestions on setting up this hall for sound and staging. Starting from scratch.

These are the areas that I need to cover.
1. Sound system / Speakers - Location and How many is needed
2. Lighting and Projector Rig
3. Stage setup for musicians - location
4. Wiring setup and ideas for instruments,mics, feedback speakers etc
It sounds like you are basically looking to get the full range of services of an AVL consultant/designer via a forum and that is realistically not practical. You really need to hire someone, be it a consultant or design/build Contractor, that can spend the time with you and the design team (Architect, Engineers, etc.) to make sure that they understand your goals and can coordinate everything with the rest of the building design.

Yes, this will have a cost, but it also has a value. It is all too easy in a forum format to miss some critical piece of information or to have what is offered misinterpreted. A forum may be a good place to get general input or to get answers to specific questions, but not for complete system designs.

Some things I noted with the plans shown just from a cursory look that might have already been addressed with such a person involved:
  • A square room (roughly 55'-9" square) is usually undesired from an acoustical perspective.
  • No mechanical or electrical equipment space or equipment is apparent. The intent may be to locate such equipment in the Storage rooms, however that would seem likely to impact their being identified as Store spaces and to limit the actual storage room available in them. For example, here in the US an electrical distribution panel typically has to be accessible and requires 3' of clear space in front of it, which would lead to space in the room that has to be kept clear and could not be used for storage.
  • The only way to have the restrooms accessible appears to be to leave the operable partition open which effectively puts the restroom entrances in the worship space. There seems to be ideal spaces for all the restrooms to create vestibules with a second door that could act as light and sound locks.
  • There is storage by the stage but none that can be accessed from the stage, meaning anything has to be lifted on and off of the stage.
  • The 'temporary platform' designation probably helps with building code type issues but also likely means nothing can be built into the stage, such as floor boxes, power receptacles, etc.
  • The AVL booth is in a less than desirable location in several ways and seems to leave minimal room for actual equipment. The viewing issues Wayne noted also seem to apply here as the operators would seem to actually have to work at an angle to the desktop. If you angle the seating then maybe the booth front could also be angled.
  • Given some of the above, one has to wonder how much consideration for acoustics was given when selecting the finish materials.
  • The wide stage, relatively low ceiling and possible intent to use the Foyer as overflow or expanded seating all potentially increase the AVL systems required and the associated costs.
It may seem that I am being overly critical as you cannot do anything about what has already transpired but the point I am trying to make is that relying on a forum to design the AVL systems for a space that is apparently already well developed is generally an ineffective approach.


That being said, what is important in terms of developing solutions for the AVL systems is defining your and the church's goals and expectations in terms of function, quality, budget, etc. How do you see projection being used? Is the lighting primarily for general purpose use, to light certain locations on the stage, for dramatic effect and so on? May you have dramatic performances, dance, etc. on stage or is it always the same basic band and WL configuration? Have you considered a personal monitor system or in-ear monitors rather than using floor monitors on stage? Do the bass and guitar use only their amps on stage, only an interface box or Direct Input or a combination of these? Do you always have the same performers or may they vary? Have you accounted for, or may be limited by already defined, power and conduit provisions for the AVL systems? Are there any coordination items such as house lights, ceiling fans, ductwork, permissible hang points and so on that need to be considered? Who is going to be performing the actual design and installation of the AVL systems? Is there a defined budget goal for the AVL systems? Do you have any personal preferences in terms of specific concepts, approaches, manufacturers and so forth? Could things change, for example might it be realistic that drums might be added or there could be choir or a larger number of backup singers, especially as you are increasing the seating capacity?

That is a lot to address at once but hopefully it gives some idea of the type of planning and information that may be involved in developing effective solutions for the AVL systems and why a forum environment may not be the best way to approach developing the related systems. And note that the same general considerations apply regardless of the size of the church, worship space or budget, in fact with small spaces and tight budgets thoughtful planning can be even more important.

So if you are looking for general ideas, I'm sure some valuable suggestions can be offered. And if you have specific questions there are some great resources here. But I have to strongly recommend against the approach of using a forum to try to design complete systems.
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