The Church Media Community
Equipping You to Communicate Effectively
support CMN & share a
library of 19K+ images, videos, etc
Go Pro!
 
Go Back   The Church Media Community > Audio > General Audio
Forgot Password?
                          Register

General Audio All things about sound are discussed here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 4.00 average. Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 10:07 PM
New Church Media Member

 
 Join Date: Nov 2006 
 Last Online: Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 
Soundboard operations

Hey everybody

Is me again you guys have been a lot of help. maybe one day i can return the favor, but for now i'm just a newbee. I started a new church a few months a go. They asked me to be the sound guy (run the sound board set up the equitment almost everything , i have little experiene. i got the basics of the sound board. but i always run into techical problems. If any body has any tricks or tips to run it, or run it more smoothly i am up for anything .... "Please Help Me Obi-one your my only hope"
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 10:34 PM
Gracetech's Avatar
ubergeekimus maximus

 
 Join Date: Mar 2005 
 Last Online: Thursday, March 27th, 2014 
Can you start by explaining your system to us in as much detail as you can? What specifically are you interested in learning first? Just a couple of questions to help us and help you get started.

crt
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tuesday, January 16th, 2007, 11:52 PM
Church Media Expert

 
 Join Date: Nov 2005 
 Last Online: Friday, July 11th, 2008 
Biggest tip I had given to me was "Learn signal flow!".

Once you know how the signals flow you can quickly figure out what is going wrong. When you learn the signal flow you should be able to tell someone else exactly how the board works in non-technical detail, what each little knob and dial does, what each switch is for and what happens when you start adjusting things, then you know the board. I've been running our board for almost a year now, it's a digital board, and I still am not sure about all the signal flow, but I can talk my way through a problem with one of the other sound guys and usually I'm right.

Analog boards were so much easier. But boy do I really love our digital board....... it's even easier but harder to figure out signal flow as each slider has several functions depending on which switch is selected, and there are several ways to do something.
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 09:23 AM
shayward's Avatar
New PA System Survivor

 
 Join Date: Jun 2006 
 Last Online: Thursday, November 10th, 2011 
I'm with NGRRFan - signal flow is the most important but it sounds like you're getting comfortable with that.

I think from there, it's a matter of learning how to do things correctly. What works and what is correct are often two different things, as I have discovered over the years.

The most important things to remember are:
- Your first duty is to serve God and work for the edification of the saints (this is a ministry)
- Your second duty is to be a part of the ministry team, working as partners with speakers and musicians
- Any ministry that God and the church leaders give us is an honour and we must always respect that honour by doing a good job (which is exactly what you are doing by seeking to know more)
- No one knows it all so it is important to partner and share our experiences. I am in awe of the vast knowledge held by the many wonderful people here at CMN and am grateful to the many who have shared that knowledge.

Also, look into some general training materials and definitely post messages on this site to ask general or specific questions, to get help with what you're learning, or to share your victories.

You can get some great stuff for not a lot of money. I've seen some banner ads flying by on this site. Our brand new training plan (starting in a few weeks) consists of:

1. Sound Made Simple Interactive CD-ROM (requires a PC) (great and complete starter)
2. Live Sound Reinforcement (Book and DVD) (Intermediate level)
3. Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook (very advanced)

All three cover some of the physics of sound to help you understand what you are learning. The physics grows in difficulty with each one.

I hope this helps you get started. I will post some tips when I have a chance.

Best wishes
- Shaun
__________________
Sanctus Software
More RegEx: (?<BookTitle>[A-Za-z0-9 ]+)\s(?<ChapterNumber>\d{1,3})[:](?<VerseNumber>\d{1,3})
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 09:25 AM
shayward's Avatar
New PA System Survivor

 
 Join Date: Jun 2006 
 Last Online: Thursday, November 10th, 2011 
A Few Tips

Gain vs. Fader
On Saturday I was just showing our apprentice the difference between the gain knob and the fader. If you give a channel just a little bit of gain and crank the fader, you often get an anemic (weak), shallow sound. If you crank the gain past the point of clipping and give just a little bit of fader then you get a horrible, distorted sound (even worse on a digital mixer).

Turn the gain up as high as you can while being reasonably certain that the loudest sound coming into the channel will not drive it to clip (and distort).

Mixer to Amplifier
If you have a seperate Mixer and Amplifier, get as much volume (reasonably) as you can out of the mixer by having the channel faders and the master fader pushed up high (but not to the very top... usually close to the 0db mark). Then turn up your amplifier just as much as you need to. That should give you a better, clearer sound.

This, along with the previous paragraph, shows that you want to get as much out of each stage in the signal chain as you can before the signal moves on to the next stage.

Understanding Equalization
I visited a friend's church (he's the Pastor) to help him setup his sound system. My friend is the only one at his church with any degree of technical knowledge and it is not in sound. The system was just left "as-is" from the previous Pastor (who knew less about sound) and the kids (I mean kids, not young sound operators) had all fiddled with all of the knobs.

It sounded horrible and unintellegable. One of the first things I did was look at his beautiful, stereo 31-band EQ. The pattern was totally random and extreme. I flattened the EQ (put all of the sliders to the middle) and the sound was wonderful.

Each note (called a "frequency" in audio terms) on an instrument/voice can be described in terms of hertz. Humans can hear frequencies from 20 hertz (very low) to 20K (20,000) hertz (very high). The note A-below-middle-C on a piano/keyboard is 440 hertz (thus the term A440).

An equalizer boosts or cuts the volume of a given range (or band) of frequencies. Let's say you plugged an electronic keyboard with no internal speakers into the sound system and asked the player to keep striking the note A-below-middle-C. Then you turn the EQ fader with the number closest to 440 all the way down. The note will loose a huge amount of volume while other notes will still be as loud as they were before. If you then turned that same fader all the way up the note would be very loud compared to all of the other notes.

So, an EQ is a volume fader for a specific band of frequencies.

Each channel on your mixer probably has a mini-EQ. Instead of 31 faders, you'll have 2, 3, or 4 knobs labeled High, High-Mid, Low-Mid, and Low respectively. These work the same way except that one of those knobs will effect a broader range of frequencies than a single fader on a 31-band eq.

Using Equalization
Most kids (young sound operators) turn the EQ into a smiley face on their home/car stereo. In other words, they bost the bass and boost the treble because it makes electronica (dance, house, hiphop, rap, rave) punchier. It does make for a great experience on the dance floor (I assume... I can't dance).

Some of those young guys try to run the church sound system the same way, but that defeats the purpose of an equalizer.

An equalizer is designed to make equal all of the frequences in a room. If any two frequencies enter the sound system at the same volume they should come out of the sound system and be heard everywhere in the room at the same volume. If that is not happening then the equalizer is supposed to fix that.

Start by setting your EQ to completely flat (in the middle possition) for both your graphic EQ and the EQ knobs on each channel (unless they were previously setup by a consultant... then leave them as they are for now).

Then adjust the EQ as needed. If a person speaking has a booming bass voice (or stands too close to the mic, which excentuates the bass) then turn down the bass knob on the mic channel to improve intellegability.

And be very careful on boosting any frequency above the middle position as you risk feedback.

Volume
Keep the sound level audible but comfortable. It's not a rock concert... unless, of course, you're running sound at a Christian rock concert. But even if you are, a Christian rock concert should still be about winning converts and edifying the saints. Know your audience.

Sound Reinforcement - The Philosophy
The art of making sound louder so it can be heard (called Sound Reinforcement) is the technical art of setting up and running a Sound Reinforcement System (often just called a Sound System or a PA [Public Address] System). The idea is to reinforce (make louder) the sound so that it can be heard by the audience/congregation.

Simply put, you don't want to alter the sound.

When you are reinforcing a preacher you want each person in the congregation to hear the preacher as if he were standing right in front of them and speaking at a normal speaking volume.

When you are reinforcing a musician or group of musicians you want each person in the congregation to hear the group as if they were playing in the person's livingroom without amplification.

You want exactly what the speaker or musician is putting out, only louder.

A notable exception is if the sound is somewhat offensive (I don't mean that disrespectfully) like a preacher that has a harsh tone in his/her voice. You could use EQ to lessen the harshness.

Or maybe a somewhat auxilary guitar player is out of rhythm or out of tune... you could always have him turned up in his monitor speaker but turned down to a harmless level on the main speakers.

Sometimes this is the art of being as wise as a surpent and as harmless as a dove.

I hope these tips are of some help (and I hope I got them all right )

- Shaun
__________________
Sanctus Software
More RegEx: (?<BookTitle>[A-Za-z0-9 ]+)\s(?<ChapterNumber>\d{1,3})[:](?<VerseNumber>\d{1,3})
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 09:57 AM
smtv's Avatar
Church Media Mentor

 
 Join Date: Mar 2006 
 Last Online: Sunday, October 14th, 2007 
Simple is good. One mic and one speaker the "best" but not the what people want. Try to plan where everyone will be walking. Try to get them to go to the mic's not the other way around.
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 10:24 AM
Gene's Avatar
Ne'er-do-well

 
 Join Date: Jul 2005 
 Last Online: Monday, March 31st, 2014 
(Can an admin please move this thread to the audio forum? It'll get more looks from the people who know audio stuff that way.)

What kind of services do you have, and what kind of equipment?

In case you missed it in the other posts, learn signal flow! But beyond just learning the flow of the signal through the mixer, learn how it gets from the pastor, singers and instruments all the way to the speakers. What kind of cables are used? Where does the snake run? How many wireless channels are there? Troubleshooting and fine-tuning sound frequently involves not just adjustments on the mixer, but finding problems in anything from mic technique to a bad cable somewhere, and everything in between.

There's a nice online resource, the Internet Sound Institute (it'll ask for the first 3 digits of your zip code, but it's free.) It's got both a nice reference library and some self-paced courses.

I'd also highly recommend the Yamaha Guide to Sound Systems for Worship (aka the purple book). The section on tape ministries is a bit dated, but the rest will give you a good solid understanding of sound and sound equipment.

I wrote a small, 16-page guide to our sound and video system, with the idea of it being a resource for other people who use the sound system, so I wouldn't get those panicked calls of "what do I do?!?" But it also has some simple explanations of terminology, equipment, and a troubleshooting section. Some parts of the last are system-specific, but it will give you some ideas of what do learn about your system. The PDF of the guide is here, and the MS Word .doc is here. You're welcome to take it and use it as the basis of your own sound system guide.

And of course, ask questions here! If you've hit specific problems but haven't known how to solve them, just ask. There are lots of helpful folks around on CMN.
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 06:23 AM
Ron's Avatar
Ron Ron is offline
KJ5GG

 
 Join Date: Apr 2003 
 Last Online: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 
Some things I tell our ops:

1. Pay attention to the WL/MoM.

2. Keep eye contact with him/her.

3. Don't let other people around you distract you from what you're doing. Sometimes you just have to ignore people that are trying to visit with you.

4. When the WL/MoM indicates the music needs to be louder/softer he/she means the music in the stage monitor NOT the music the congregation is hearing (adjust the channel monitor level not the channel fader).

5. Anticipate more than react. If the sermon always begins after the special music don't wait for the pastor to start asking, "Is this on? Can you hear me?" before turning his mic on

6. If a mic isn't being used, mute it. On our board, mute kills the channel in both the house and monitors. Channel faders alone won't kill a channel.

7. Set Gain/Sens/Trim (term depends on board being used) so the channel fader is run at the 0 mark as much as possible.

8. Attend the Sunday rehearsal.
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 10:20 AM
New Church Media Member

 
 Join Date: Nov 2006 
 Last Online: Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 
Ok guy thanx alot for all the advice. To answer some questions
1. What type of sound equipment am i using?
A: i am not familure with soundboards but it seems very basic. Its a Yamaha sound system pordable. it has Mids Lows and High controls (don't really know how to use them). a master level and monator levels and some effects.

2. What would i like to work on?
A:
a. how to use the Mid High and low control if i need them?
b. what is pan?
c. should i check each mic as they are set up or wait for a sound check?
d. tips on how to balance the Monitors and Speakers
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 10:38 AM
New Church Media Member

 
 Join Date: Nov 2006 
 Last Online: Wednesday, June 25th, 2008 
Gene thanx for you resources i am looking into them. i downloaded the guide and look in to the sound institute. once again every body thanx for the advice and tips i am still sifting through it

Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 10:39 AM
Church Media Regular

 
 Join Date: May 2006 
 Last Online: Sunday, November 28th, 2010 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulSabor View Post
Ok guy thanx alot for all the advice. To answer some questions
1. What type of sound equipment am i using?
A: i am not familure with soundboards but it seems very basic. Its a Yamaha sound system pordable. it has Mids Lows and High controls (don't really know how to use them). a master level and monator levels and some effects.

2. What would i like to work on?
A:
a. how to use the Mid High and low control if i need them?
b. what is pan?
c. should i check each mic as they are set up or wait for a sound check?
d. tips on how to balance the Monitors and Speakers

High, Mid ad Low EQ
I'm not sure how to explain this and it make sense.

Pan
Set a "center decent" will route the sound, from that particular channel, out to both L/R speaker channels. Turned either direction away from "center decent" will cause the out put form a channel to be routed to either the left or right speaker channel.

Checking each mic
I would check them as you set the system up that way if there is a problem you can try to have it fixed before sound check.

Balance between monitors and mains
We don't use monitors, we need to so the chior can hear the music and themselves better, so I won't be much help on this subject.
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thursday, January 18th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Gene's Avatar
Ne'er-do-well

 
 Join Date: Jul 2005 
 Last Online: Monday, March 31st, 2014 
Next time you can, find the model number of the mixer. Even if none of us know the specific board, we can look at a manual and better direct answers.

Are the low, mid and high on each channel, or a single set for the master? In any event, it's referred to as EQ, and they're for cutting or boosting the low, mid-range, and high frequencies of the sound. The exact frequency ranges are associated with each depends on the mixer. They're most useful if they're per channel, so you can adjust things separately for each input. EQ can be used in a variety of ways to fix problems or to 'color' the sound. For example, if you have a speaker who tends to "pop their Ps", you can cut the high frequencies on that channel a bit, and it will reduce the popping.

Pan is the left / right balance. If you're running things in mono (and many churches are, for a variety of reasons), it won't do much. We happen to run in stereo, and I use pan to push the vocalists a little to the left and the instruments a little to the right to give a little separation to the sound. It helps with our set up to cut through some of the jumble when we have a larger worship team on a given Sunday.

When you check a mic is up to you. I tend to wait until sound check, because we don't have much time between the traditional and contemporary services, so the vocalists are generally setting up their own mics, stuff is still getting moved around, etc. Trying to check things then would lead to things getting plugged into an unmuted channel, or an open mic bumped or rattled. But whatever works best for you and your setup.

Regarding balancing the monitors and speakers, it can be a difficult task depending on your setup. But the basic thing to remember is that monitors are there to let the worship team hear as little as they need to sing and play together. Monitors are not there to give them an exact reproduction of what's in the main speakers (front of house, FOH). They aren't there so every member can hear every other member. The less you can put into monitors, the better off you'll be. Too much sound in the monitors leads to a stage 'wash', which can overwhelm the FOH sound. Besides making it difficult to give a good FOH sound, it can lead to excessively loud noise levels on the stage.
Reply With Quote Start a New Topic From This Comment
Reply

  The Church Media Community > Audio > General Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:



Add to Google


Register Now for FREE!
Our records show you have not yet registered to our community. To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
Agree to forum rules 


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:30 PM.

   
 
© 1995-2008, ChurchMedia™, ChurchMedia LLC

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0