A problem

[Esoteric]

Hey guys I have a problem and I am looking for some advice.

Most people have their job and then they have their ministry. The two don't really mix.

Well as you guys know I do a lot of work with churches and as such I consider what I do part ministry and part work.

Normally I will do the leg work for free plus I give churches outstanding pricing (lower than all my other clients). In addition I will do a little design work at a discounted rate.

But recently I have had churches start to take advantage of this and allow me to do all the leg work and then go to a local competitor that will gladly undercut my price (even if they lose money).

I hate to start charging for consulting because I know most churches can't afford it, but I feel the need to do something.

In the past my stance has been to charge for the work, but discount or even pro bono the fees if the client buys from me.

I have thought about going totally into consulting, but there just isn't enough business in consulting in my area to keep my business afloat.

I still want to offer superior value, but lately I have been doing 30 hours of work a week for no return because a client takes my design and equipment list to a competitor, who can and will undercut me to take my business.

I don't want to quit offering these value services to churches, because I feel a calling to do it. But I simply can not do business this way.

The only other solution I can think of would be to close up shop and give out free advice on boards like these as a private citizen.

But I can't keep doing hours and hours of leg work for free, and not get a sale out of it because my competition will take a loss in order to undercut me.

I just got a text and found out that in part this is partially my fault because my clients don't know what it is I do exactly. For example, one client told me they wanted a stage. They apparently didn't think it took any work to go from that to a stage that is 24'x4' then 16'x4' then 8'x4', 32" tall, skirted, that would stand up to the wear and tear of being in a mobile rig, but would still be good quality for the cost, and would function on an incline. They could not figure out why I was upset that they took what took me about 8 hours (we went through several evolutions to arrive at this end design) or so and simply turned my equipment list over to my competitor and get a lower price.

Thanks for letting me rant. I am not sure what I am looking for, or what I want to accomplish with this post, it is just very frustrating.

Mike

[waynehoskins]

I think you may need to charge a consulting fee. Free things are often valued less than things that cost money, even if they're exactly the same. You could always discount some of the consulting fee if the client went with you in the end.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, that is my general rule. I think I need to enforce it more. Right now unless it is super complicated design work, I will usually let it slide.

Then a client thinks you spend 10 minutes writing up an invoice, when you actually put 10-20 hours of design into the project.

Mike

[andrewc2]

I was thinking similar to Wayne, offer to do the consulting at a price that provided everything is purchased through you would become free, without the purchase the consulting isn't free.

[petereit]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

I hate to start charging for consulting because I know most churches can't afford it...

If they can't afford your consulting services, they have bigger problems than bad lighting.

[Paris MkVI]

What brother Mark said.

I agree, hold fast on a consulting fee. You may decide whether or not to reduce or discount it once they commit to you for the work.

This is a reasonable course of action. It is perfectly reasonable to explain in advance.

Then, if they choose not to consult with you, you are free to spend the time working with another church that has a clearer understanding of both communication and healthy relationships.

Someone who thinks they are getting charged for the ten minutes to draw up the invoice is not someone you want to work with anyway. They have both trust issues and a poor understanding of the work involved. If they are not receptive to learning the truth and to building healthy trust relationships, then you cannot fix that.

Stand fast brother, and trust in the Lord! He has plans for your future. He knows you have a heart to serve the church. He also wants you to be His ambassador, demonstrating Godly behavioral and business boundaries and limits. Continue to seek Him and his plan for you, and prepare to be blessed mightily in doing so!

[Toetagger]

I am not exactly sure how everything works for your business but I do think you could have a contract of sorts like mentioned above that if they get everything from you then the consulting is free but if they don't they they pay $XX.xx for the consulting. Seems fair to both parties plus still allows you to help out churches.

[Esoteric]

Thank you guys! You are so encouraging!

Mike

[avperson]

Hi, this is both on and off the subject. I contacted a company to do some landscaping in my front yard. He gave me a really great design, I am sure it took him a while to do. I liked his design and noted on the bottom that HE owned the design and I could not take it some where else to get the same design done. Now can that transfer to lights, I don't know.

The company did a great job on my yard by the way.

[jameshorsley197]

Being a small business owner that does a lot of bids and some designs for remodels, I have taken to charging for the design work and will cut the cost of the design work from the bill if we do the job. So far this has worked out well especially since most of the time I charge well below other companies that do the same designs, much like you seem to.

[rkresge]

How about an up-front agreement (contract) that says the results of your free consulting work are proprietary and confidential, and that they belong to you. Further, that the customer may not use the plans for implementation by themselves or any third party without paying for them first. But there's no fee if you do the implementation work.

Then watermark the your reports, drawings, etc., and include some legal language in the footers. Copyright your work, and include that on the papers. Ethical organizations will respect that.

We used something along those lines when I was in the computer consulting field, and even though we ran into a few really unethical potential customers who would still shop our plans around, overall it worked. Before we started doing that we would see our proposals being passed around as if they were bid requests.

Roger

[Esoteric]

Great idea RK!

Mike