What to do with a rogue??

[nathandiehl]

So there is a guy in our church who recorded several song performances performed with live vocals and a professional, copyrighted, audio track.

He then (on his own) printed 500 CDs with the illegal recordings on it and labeled it 'Songs of New Hope" (the church name is New Hope).

He is now distributing the CDs at church, and it certainly looks as if the church produced these illegal recordings. He knows the church's stance--and official pollicy--but refuses to obey our policy against possessing known illegal CDs on church property, and has continued to give these CDs away.

So what do I do with this rogue? Is the church liable for a man's refusable to obey official church policy? (And yes, he is fully aware of the church policy.)

Advice/Help Me Please!

[Mark Finley]

Originally Posted by nathandiehl

So there is a guy in our church who recorded several song performances performed with live vocals and a professional, copyrighted, audio track.

He then (on his own) printed 500 CDs with the illegal recordings on it and labeled it 'Songs of New Hope" (the church name is New Hope).

He is now distributing the CDs at church, and it certainly looks as if the church produced these illegal recordings. He knows the church's stance--and official pollicy--but refuses to obey our policy against possessing known illegal CDs on church property, and has continued to give these CDs away.

So what do I do with this rogue? Is the church liable for a man's refusable to obey official church policy? (And yes, he is fully aware of the church policy.)

Advice/Help Me Please!

Sounds like an issue for the elder board. Let them know about the problem, and they will take it to whatever step they think is appropiate.

If your church doesn't have an elder board, the senior pastor should talk to him

I second Mark's suggestion. The Elders need to have a discussion with him about the reasons for the church policy and that usage of the church's name is not allowed. And to cease and desist with handing them out .... and pray with him. Help him to see the scriptural basis for why your church has this stance.

I believe that Matthew 18:15 really applies here. If you have spoken with him as both a brother as well as from your position as Publication Director, then take another brother or staff member with you, if he still resists then the elders as well as Pastor shuold go to him with you.

I will also be in prayer for the situation.

Someone (church authority) should speak with him. If he continues to do it, it might be proper for the pastor to address it from the pulpit or send a letter out to the church members, but if it were me, I'd hate to see it come to that.

As for the church's liability, I don't really see how the church could be liable in any way--as long as you covered the performance of the songs properly. From the way you described it, he did everything on his own and in most cases, he would be the only one liable.

The church should provide reasonable protection of the rights, and you cannot control the actions of everyone. If someone wants to record something and sell it, unless you know they are going to do it up front, there isn't much you can do to stop them. Again, it seems like he's placed the whole thing on his own shoulders, and I would seriously doubt that anyone could pin any liability on the church.

Pray---a lot

[adamdiehl]

Originally Posted by brand1m

As for the church's liability, I don't really see how the church could be liable in any way--as long as you covered the performance of the songs properly. From the way you described it, he did everything on his own and in most cases, he would be the only one liable.

The church should provide reasonable protection of the rights, and you cannot control the actions of everyone. If someone wants to record something and sell it, unless you know they are going to do it up front, there isn't much you can do to stop them. Again, it seems like he's placed the whole thing on his own shoulders, and I would seriously doubt that anyone could pin any liability on the church.

The way I understand the situation is that although he edited, copied, and produced everything himself, he still recorded the performance on the church's equipment (without permission). Would that make the church liable? Also, liable or not.... it makes the church look bad.

[[Director] Joseph B]

I can tell you as a law enforcement officer that you have now become an accomplice after the fact. You know it's illegal, you even took steps to stop it. I'd say you need to sit him down in an office, with a tape recorder running and give him a final opportunity to stop. If he doesn't then you may have to report him yourself. He is also using the church name without permission and you have every right to demand that he stop. Sometimes the only way to control something like this is to involve the authorities.

I agree with Joseph. Sit him down and get him on record as saying that he isn't going to stop. Unfortunately, all of this is probably going to mean at least one lost church member, but the church as a whole and doing what is ethically right outweighs that in my opinion. I also agree that I would probably report him, if he refuses to cooperate. It would seem that the issue of using the church name is a little shakey. "New hope" could be anything. Now if he is using the logo or logo/type of the logo, that is different or if he was using the official name (e.g. New Hope Church, or New Hope United Methodist Church or whatever the official name of your church is).

I do have a question though. Joseph, I'm not questioning your credentials, but are you sure about the accomplice thing? I guess I could see that, but I have a hard time believing that anyone would go after a church that is obviously trying to stop something that is wrong. If everyone reported every crime that they observed or knew about, our police departments would explode! I guess the best solution is to ask him one more time to stop and if he doesn't, report him.

[[Director] Joseph B]

That actually may depend on the laws in that particular state. If you are aware of a crime and fail to report it, you do become an accessory however (at least in New Jersey). (I guess you're right, it's accessory not accomplice).

The law is funny...we should just go back to the 10 commandments, life would be so much simpler.

Hehe. Life would be easier if we just used the 10 commandments. Maybe we could come up with a ten commandments for tax laws too--that thing could use some simplifying.

Mathew 18:15-17 really needs to apply in this matter. Have you confronted him one on one in private? If you have done without resolution, did you bring one or two witnesses? If you have done without resolution, did you then bring the matter to the church? First you, then witnesses, then the church. God will look at your obedience as well.

As for the recording, will it make this person trust you any more or less? In this digital age, recordings can easily be manipulated. You might have a hard time getting him to agree to this. In Maryland it is very illegal to record a person without permission. Remember Linda Tripp?

My advice is to read and follow Mathew 18:15-17.