Showing Youtube videos in church worship services, youtube terms

[jgman]

In researching the topic of showing Youtube videos in church services I ran upon a few things:

• what ccli says
• What youtube's terms say
• is there a contradiction in youtube's terms?

What CCLI says:
ht tp : / / w w w .ccli. ie/faqs/ faq.cfm?id=526 (spaces added to allow, it took me a while to run across that, probably not to hard to find in reality though)

Do we require a licence to show downloaded video in church? Can we use YouTube in church? Sunday May 9, 2010

You would need to obtain direct permission from any web-page you download video. YouTube's terms state their site is for private use only.

What youtube's terms say:

In section 5. B.

5. Your Use of Content

In addition to the general restrictions above, the following restrictions and conditions apply specifically to your use of Content[...]

B. Content is provided to you AS IS. You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content. You shall not copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, or otherwise exploit any Content for any other purposes without the prior written consent of YouTube or the respective licensors of the Content. YouTube and its licensors reserve all rights not expressly granted in and to the Service and the Content.

bold mine

in section 6. C.

6. Your Content and Conduct [...]

C. For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your Content. However, by submitting Content to YouTube, you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content in connection with the Service and YouTube's (and its successors' and affiliates') business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service (and derivative works thereof) in any media formats and through any media channels. You also hereby grant each user of the Service a non-exclusive license to access your Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such Content as permitted through the functionality of the Service and under these Terms of Service. The above licenses granted by you in video Content you submit to the Service terminate within a commercially reasonable time after you remove or delete your videos from the Service. You understand and agree, however, that YouTube may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of your videos that have been removed or deleted. The above licenses granted by you in user comments you submit are perpetual and irrevocable.

bold mine

The possible contradiction:
It seems that youtubes terms prohibit users from "display"ing their content, and further states it is for "personal use." However, does youtubes terms give room for "display and perform"ance in section 6 where it states what permissions are give not only to youtube but to youtube's users?

So, as it pertains to churches using youtube in their services, how does the above info weigh in? My first thought is "personal use" would reign here and would prohibit church's from "display"ing youtube videos (i.e. streaming youtube videos in a web browser during a church service.)

What do you all think? I've wandered around this issue for a while, did some digging and haven't seen anyone deal with what the policies actually say yet. Maybe they have, my apologies if so. So, what do you think?

[rjwalker]

As a general rule of law, any ambiguities will be construed against the person who drafted the contract (or, in this case the EULA)

However, the second clause isn't necessarily in conflict with the first:

"to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such Content as permitted through the functionality of the Service and under these Terms of Service."

The bolded, italicized language arguably incorporates by reference the earlier section 5 limitation to "personal use only"

If I were going to use a youtube vid, I'd get permission from the uploader, and I'd be pretty careful that the uploader hasn't swiped material.

(It's common to see disclaimers along the lines of "I don't own this" which are legally meaningless from a copyright point of view.)

[wogster]

Originally Posted by jgman

In researching the topic of showing Youtube videos in church services I ran upon a few things:

• what ccli says
• What youtube's terms say
• is there a contradiction in youtube's terms?

What CCLI says:
ht tp : / / w w w .ccli. ie/faqs/ faq.cfm?id=526 (spaces added to allow, it took me a while to run across that, probably not to hard to find in reality though)



What youtube's terms say:

In section 5. B.
bold mine

in section 6. C.

bold mine

The possible contradiction:
It seems that youtubes terms prohibit users from "display"ing their content, and further states it is for "personal use." However, does youtubes terms give room for "display and perform"ance in section 6 where it states what permissions are give not only to youtube but to youtube's users?

So, as it pertains to churches using youtube in their services, how does the above info weigh in? My first thought is "personal use" would reign here and would prohibit church's from "display"ing youtube videos (i.e. streaming youtube videos in a web browser during a church service.)

What do you all think? I've wandered around this issue for a while, did some digging and haven't seen anyone deal with what the policies actually say yet. Maybe they have, my apologies if so. So, what do you think?

IANAL, however.

If you really are concerned about what terms apply in what instances, it really comes down to contacting the copyright holder and seeing what they say. If you have a CVLI licence (the CCLI video licence), then is the material in question covered? If the material is covered then it comes down to whether you have the legal right to display the Youtube (YT) logo and web page. That is really where the YT terms of service could get you into trouble. You can always scrape it off YT with software like Keeptube, and avoid the Youtube web page and logo issue. For church service use, this is a better idea anyway, in that you avoid the risk of losing your Internet connection at an inopportune time, and doling out scads of embarrassment.

[jameshorsley197]

If there is this much gray area then churches just need to stay out of it. So much Youtube has copyrighted background music and images that it is next to impossible to contact everyone that has a copyright claim. What we as churches need to do is follow the law to its fullest. From what I read in the EULA of Youtube and so many other sites are that these videos are not to even be downloaded, the reason that you have to use a 3rd party download program, many of which you have to constantly upgraded because Youtube keeps changing there security measures to keep people from downloading their content. Our churches are under scripture to obey the laws of the land when thet do not keep us from worshipping God. Do I gree with all the interpretations of the copyright laws, absolutely not, but if the copyright holder decides to enforce their copyright your church could be facing huge fines and lawsuits. After reading through many forums and reading the EULA I made the decision as a pastor not to use Youtube media or any others that I do not have written permission to use. And CVLI does not cover a lot of Christain Movies either so be very careful there also. Just my 2 cents worth.

[wogster]

Originally Posted by jameshorsley197

If there is this much gray area then churches just need to stay out of it. So much Youtube has copyrighted background music and images that it is next to impossible to contact everyone that has a copyright claim. What we as churches need to do is follow the law to its fullest. From what I read in the EULA of Youtube and so many other sites are that these videos are not to even be downloaded, the reason that you have to use a 3rd party download program, many of which you have to constantly upgraded because Youtube keeps changing there security measures to keep people from downloading their content. Our churches are under scripture to obey the laws of the land when thet do not keep us from worshipping God. Do I gree with all the interpretations of the copyright laws, absolutely not, but if the copyright holder decides to enforce their copyright your church could be facing huge fines and lawsuits. After reading through many forums and reading the EULA I made the decision as a pastor not to use Youtube media or any others that I do not have written permission to use. And CVLI does not cover a lot of Christain Movies either so be very careful there also. Just my 2 cents worth.

You can always contact the copyright holder directly, ask them for WRITTEN copy permission and ask them for a source other then Youtube. Unfortunately sometimes the copyright holder has posted it on Youtube as a method of public dissemination and that is the only place to get it from.

[JDaniels]

CVLI will cover any video played in any service for instructional use in a message, AS LONG AS it is not rebroadcast over the net or tv show.

[JDaniels]

Originally Posted by jameshorsley197

If there is this much gray area then churches just need to stay out of it. So much Youtube has copyrighted background music and images that it is next to impossible to contact everyone that has a copyright claim. What we as churches need to do is follow the law to its fullest. From what I read in the EULA of Youtube and so many other sites are that these videos are not to even be downloaded, the reason that you have to use a 3rd party download program, many of which you have to constantly upgraded because Youtube keeps changing there security measures to keep people from downloading their content. Our churches are under scripture to obey the laws of the land when thet do not keep us from worshipping God. Do I gree with all the interpretations of the copyright laws, absolutely not, but if the copyright holder decides to enforce their copyright your church could be facing huge fines and lawsuits. After reading through many forums and reading the EULA I made the decision as a pastor not to use Youtube media or any others that I do not have written permission to use. And CVLI does not cover a lot of Christain Movies either so be very careful there also. Just my 2 cents worth.

You are correct that CVLI doesn't cover a lot of Christian movies if the congregation wants to show the ENTIRE movie in a public setting like the worship center or congregation. You need to contact a licensing agency like SWANK or LIFEWAY to purchase a license for that public viewing.

CVLI WILL cover any edited clip from any movie shown in an instructional sense from pastor's sermon or as a intro video to his sermon or as a worship element, AS LONG AS you don't rebroadcast said clip out over the internet or on a TV Show. It is only for the particular service within the walls of the church

[rjwalker]

Originally Posted by JDaniels

CVLI WILL cover any edited clip from any movie shown in an instructional sense from pastor's sermon or as a intro video to his sermon or as a worship element, AS LONG AS you don't rebroadcast said clip out over the internet or on a TV Show. It is only for the particular service within the walls of the church

I'm thinking you didn't express yourself with the clarity you intended. I'm expert in neither copyright law nor the CVLI license. But I know enough law to know that the word "any" is fraught with peril.*

From the CVLI site:

"The Total Producer Package covers over 500 producers, including the major Hollywood Studios like ...."

"What The License Does Not Cover
"This license does not cover materials that have been copied from another source."

So, that cool youtube video with some great copyrighted music and a bunch of images copied off the web using google images...?

I'm thinking it isn't covered by CVLI

= = = =
* I had a prof who law school who once characterized students: The 'C' students know the general rule. The 'B' students know the exception to the rule. The 'A' students know the exception to the exception to the rule."

[rkresge]

Originally Posted by JDaniels

CVLI will cover any video played in any service for instructional use in a message, AS LONG AS it is not rebroadcast over the net or tv show.

Methinks you have some misconceptions about CVLI. Sorry.

Roger