Thin Client Setup?

[James7342]

Originally Posted by rkresge

I waited to see what other people might say about this, but now I'll say that MS Small Business Server 2008 (R2) is probably a far better bet for this environment than any thin client arrangement. IMHO, thin client is not practical until you start getting into many, many potential client systems. OTOH, an MS Server with AD in the environment you described might also make a lot of sense. Small Business Server probably needs more horsepower than plain ordinary Server 2008, because the SBS potentially will run Exchange and IIS, plus it has to be a domain controller. If you don't need the extras like Exchange, Server 2008 R2 Standard might be the best buy. Both MS Servers will do what you're asking very nicely.

Hardware? 3 GHz processor (dual core), 4 GB of RAM, and RAID 1 hard drives should be more than sufficient for a small environment. If it's Server 2008 R2, it *must* be 64-bit as well. There's no 32-bit version of R2.

Roger

So it sounds like Server 2008 R2 would be one of best solutions. But 32bit workstations can still join the domain, right?

Also, I guess since user accounts would be on the server, replacing workstations would become less of a hassle. Also, using RAID 1 or 5 (5 preferably I think), would lessen the concern of the server being the single point of the failure.

So in the long run, would moving to Server 2008 R2 probably simplify things as far as system management goes? Since most things could be managed from the server, I think that would make things far easier to maintain than going around to every workstation.

[rkresge]

Originally Posted by James7342

So it sounds like Server 2008 R2 would be one of best solutions. But 32bit workstations can still join the domain, right?

Also, I guess since user accounts would be on the server, replacing workstations would become less of a hassle. Also, using RAID 1 or 5 (5 preferably I think), would lessen the concern of the server being the single point of the failure.

So in the long run, would moving to Server 2008 R2 probably simplify things as far as system management goes? Since most things could be managed from the server, I think that would make things far easier to maintain than going around to every workstation.

Both 32- and 64-bit Windows machines can join the domain, no problem. In fact, Macs can even join, even though you don't get a lot of benefit from it.

RAID 5 is always better in the long run for reliability and redundancy, but since you implied that cost is a factor I didn't suggest it. One additional note: Windows Server will do RAID 1 all by itself. And while it *can* do RAID 5 by itself, you can't boot from a RAID 5 volume unless it's done by RAID 5 *hardware*. And the cost of RAID 5 hardware can get pretty salty. Unless you like spending money, stick with RAID 1.

You'll have a definite learning curve with Windows and AD, but it's worth it. You'll be able to manage pretty much everything centrally, and users will have access to their stuff no matter where they log in. Assuming, of course, that they save it on the network server and not on the local computer's hard drive.

Roger

[James7342]

Originally Posted by rkresge

Both 32- and 64-bit Windows machines can join the domain, no problem. In fact, Macs can even join, even though you don't get a lot of benefit from it.

RAID 5 is always better in the long run for reliability and redundancy, but since you implied that cost is a factor I didn't suggest it. One additional note: Windows Server will do RAID 1 all by itself. And while it *can* do RAID 5 by itself, you can't boot from a RAID 5 volume unless it's done by RAID 5 *hardware*. And the cost of RAID 5 hardware can get pretty salty. Unless you like spending money, stick with RAID 1.

You'll have a definite learning curve with Windows and AD, but it's worth it. You'll be able to manage pretty much everything centrally, and users will have access to their stuff no matter where they log in. Assuming, of course, that they save it on the network server and not on the local computer's hard drive.

Roger

Cost isn't so much a factor as efficiency. Our church is very close to paying off our mortgage, so starting next year there will be more money to make some much needed improvements. So I've been reassessing our tech and sound infrastructure and looking at ways to improve things in a responsible way.

I'll definitely check out offerings from OEMs, but I might just end up building the server myself.

I think that pretty much answers my questions for now. I'm sure I'll have more later

Thanks Roger and everyone else for your help!

[EricE]

Originally Posted by James7342

Cost isn't so much a factor as efficiency.

I wish we could say that! I do all the IT support for my Church and that typically includes donating any hardware/software they need.

Thin Client can be pretty appealing - upgrading individual workstations can get expensive! Microsoft has an awesome product - Microsoft Multipoint Server. It has very friendly Charity licensing. I think the MultipointServer Premium license and 5 CALs so you could hook up five terminals was right around $200, but I would have to go dig up the invoice from our distributor to be sure.

If you do not have a Charity license set up for your Church, run - don't walk - to your nearest reseller and set one up! We use SoftwareOne and are very happy with them - they focus on small business and non-profits and are very customer service oriented - contact info for our rep: Kyle Elliott | Business Development Representative | SoftwareONE Office: 262-317-5591 | Mobile: 262-309-4944 | Fax: 262-317-5554 | www.softwareone.com

The nice thing about Multi-Point Premium is it comes with 1+1 licensing for HyperV! This is awesome! You install your first multipoint server, install the HyperV role (just ignore the MultiPoint server stuff - you won't use it, but you can't turn it off either) and then you can create guest VMs.

I have a guest VM for our SBS 2011 server and our MutliPoint server. In a VM multipoint only supports RDP connections via the network - but that's what I wanted anyway. We got some Dell thin client terminals donated and you get the full Windows 7 experience on them.

The most important thing - especially if you virtualize MulitPoint and SBS on the same box is RAM!

DO NOT GET A COMPUTER that can not take 64MB of RAM. There are too many motherboards out there that will support it - you just have to look for 'em. And don't skimp on the memory - get ECC RAM.

NewEgg has some great barebones systems - I picked up a tower, stuck a Xeon E3-2130 (awesome CPU that is in the sweet spot of features/price), 16GB of RAM, a nice battery backed-up SAS controller and four 1GB SAS hard drives for just under $2K.

Then six weeks later someone donated a 5 U dual quad core Xeon HP monster that came with 32 GB of RAM and five 300GB 15K SAS drives. I'm not complaining - really - since the server I built and donated is about to be reconfigured as a new gaming machine for me

Multipoint Server Premium plus SBS 2011 makes a killer solution for a church. I was getting some pushback to go with cloud based email, but when I pointed out they would either loose calendaring/scheduling functionality or be paying more than they thought - and especially over the long haul, hosting in-house won out. Now if I ever leave the church and am not providing free support that would change the equation - but I'm not moving, and so far they haven't been anywhere near driving me off so they are safe - but administration of in-house vs. hosted can definitely be a factor. If you don't have the in-house support (paid or otherwise) or are just uncomfortable running Exchange on site (it's also not for the faint of heart - esp. if you have a problem as I have found out!) then there are lots of solutions from free (Google Apps) to inexpensive. Microsoft Small Business Server Essentials paired with their hosted email/office is actually a pretty nice solution. And SBS Essentials (like Windows Home Server) has a kick-butt workstation backup. Essentials will backup 25 computers, WHS backs up 10. I also have a Windows Home Server 2011 (on an HP datavault I got for $280 a little over a year ago - I upgraded it from WHS to WHS 2011 with no problem) backing up our 10 most essential machines and I am thinking of spinning up a third VM with another WHS ($45 for the license at newegg and others all the time) to cover our remaining machines.

Anyway, some thoughts for you. If you don't need email and your file sharing needs are basic, then Windows Home Server may be all you need. I've set up some friends with small 5-10 machine networks with it and it works great, especially the new Server 2008 based WHS 2011. HP Microservers come on sale all the time - I scored one for $200 from MacMall a couple weeks ago. That even beat the black friday deals! It's going to become my new pfSenese firewall at home - overkill, but for the money I couldn't find anything cheaper!

And if you need wifi, check out my other thread about the Ubiquiti Unifi - I'm still stunned at the price/performance and pinching myself from time to time to verify I'm not dreaming - it's a great managed wifi system that does what it claims without costing an arm and a leg.