Meter Bridge

[tegger]

Before I ask my next silly question, I'd like to thank all of those that answered my questions about the A&H ZED436 my church has in place.

Apparently, the sound folks were not taught old-school of listening to the mix, sound levels, etc with headphones. Nor were they taught to watch the meters to watch for excessive levels. Well, I can't fault them for the last one because the ZED-436 really falls short in this department.

So, that leads me to ask, has anyone come across a decent multi-channel mixer bridge that has XLR in/out connections?

The LED attempts on this ZED board are okay, but not to the point where you can see what's going on at a glance.

[bpalermini]

Not sure what more you really need to see.

For us we want to be sure there is some green flashing on active channels and no red. Pretty much the same thing on the L/R. Otherwise it's what it sounds like that matters.

If you need more info on individual channels just press the PFL button for that channel and the main meters are just for that channel, group, etc.

Our A&H GL3800 has a analog meter bridge, yes, lots of swinging needles. No one ever looks at them.

[waynehoskins]

Two types of meterbridge, and I'm not sure which one you're talking about.

There is input meterbridge, where every channel has a 10-step or so LED meter above it.

There is output meterbridge, more common, where each of some set of outputs has a meter, often analog.

I've mixed on consoles with analog bus/output meterbridge (GL4K, GL3300, now original GL4) for several years now. i never look at them, look at all the other LED meters instead. But even though I never use it, I still like to have it there. Just because it would feel wrong to not have it there, swinging away with nobody looking at it.

It's been forever since I've looked at a Zed, don't remember what it has. Surely it has 3 or 4 bars for each channel and then full-size LED meters on main outputs? That, with PFL on meter, and gain reduction meters on outboard, show me virtually everything I need to see.

Most places, you can't mix live to headphones because you're mixing around stage volume, and you need to know how it sounds at a representative place in the house. I found out some years ago that I got a better house mix at my church by using headphones, so I do successfully mix to cans. But that's a rare exception. Unless you're mixing broadcast, then you definitely should use either good reference cans or good reference monitors.

[tegger]

The problem we're running into is that we have a gentleman that helps with the sound from time to time. His hearing is going and no one wants to discourage him from helping, especially when no one else is available.

The idea was to add meters to the output for the main speakers so he can visually see what is going on.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by tegger

The problem we're running into is that we have a gentleman that helps with the sound from time to time. His hearing is going and no one wants to discourage him from helping, especially when no one else is available.

The idea was to add meters to the output for the main speakers so he can visually see what is going on.

The mixer has 12 segment LED meters for the main outputs and PFL/AFL metering, so are you talking about something more than that or actually metering the signal to the speakers rather than the mixer output?

Meters would reflect the related signal level, however they would not reflect the frequency content or the perceived loudness of that signal, the contribution of any direct or stage sound or what happens downstream of the meter such as the effect of the speaker response, the room and so on. A level meter can be very useful but is simply also a very limited and ineffective way of reflecting what people are hearing.

It is a difficult situation but perhaps you could try to get some new people involved and suggest that the person noted take on more of a mentoring role for them. That might be a greater service immediately but even more so in the long term and if presented that way may help in their accepting and embracing a different role.

[tegger]

We've tried getting new people involved. But when they realize it's not as simple as it looks, they back out.

I'm looking at metering the signal going out to the mains. Primarily because that's where the problem lies. When he has run the board, people have complained that it was way too loud.

[tegger]

I've thought about asking him to get involved in other aspects, but can't.

He has been involved for as long as I can remember and was my original mentor. So, the situation is pretty complex.

[Frank DeWitt]

Originally Posted by tegger

I'm looking at metering the signal going out to the mains. Primarily because that's where the problem lies. When he has run the board, people have complained that it was way too loud.

OK That could work. It sounds like his hearing is good enough that he can mix (He may need to use cans to get more volume) but he can build a good mix. the issue is that he is out of calibration. No disrespect, just using sound guy terms.

Get a SPL meter (Radio Shack will do) or they are available for smart phones and I-pads. set it to A weighted slow, write down the numbers for worship team and preaching ETC. He can mix with cans but set the output to the meter.

Not great, but..........

BTW This brings up two things. Protect your hearing. You are going to need it. Know your limits. I am 65 and some high pitched noise gets by me. I need to have people I trust that know they can tell me when I need to stick with the technical and leave the mixing to others.

Frank

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by tegger

I'm looking at metering the signal going out to the mains. Primarily because that's where the problem lies. When he has run the board, people have complained that it was way too loud.

Your console supposedly has 12 segment LED meters for the main outputs, so are you looking for something with greater resolution than that or something that presents the information differently?

Frank has a good point that if the issue is the perceived loudness in the congregation then it may be more relevant to meter the Sound Pressure Level out in the listener area than to meter the signal level out of the mixer.

A simple example, I was running sound for a band and one night people kept complaining that one guitar was too loud. I had to point out that I could not control the level of their amp on stage, I had taken them completely out of the mix and all I could do was try to bring up everything else as much as possible without that getting too loud overall or having feedback. That is an example where the mixer signal level did not reflect the loudness issue in the audienjce. The good side of that particualr situation was that some of the people complaining were the spouses of other band members and after they understood what was happening the guitarist received plenty of commentary and made sure it never happened again without my having to say a single thing!

[tegger]

Any recommendations on a SPL for the congregation area?

This morning, only the gentleman that's been mentioned before was present. I almost didn't make it because of serious medical issues with Karen's brother. Fortunately, it worked out so that she was with him while I was in the soundbooth.

[bpalermini]

Louder = Better. Just kidding. We use the Willow Creek guideline of 95db A, Slow peaks. Some services run lower, some higher. A good mix will find it's own, best level. Our worship is 80's/90's contemporary.

[Frank DeWitt]

Louder = Better. A bible study on the word Loud confirms this over and over.

We run about 90 A weighted, sometimes 93.

Frank