Allen & Heath GL2800 Review

[Les]

Originally Posted by genepensiero

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really appreciate the feedback guys.

i also don't want this to devolve into a digital vs analog debate. we're researching everything. we spent a lot of time studying and getting our hands on the iLive. digital boards offer a lot, but i'm not convinced yet that it would be the best solution for our ministry. especially considering the price difference on the majority of well-reviewed & beloved digital consoles.

Like I said before, I think you'd be happy with the A&H GL2800 (or alternatively, the IM.

But, in your search for a digital and consideration you really took a step up in price and complexity (for new users) and kinda bypassed a group of digital consoles. I can see where if you're not familiar with digital how an iLive would be intimidated.

The LS9 is a little intimidating to get setup for a novice user but once it's setup and it's minor tweaking week to week then it's very simple. I have trained, in one afternoon, some very "green" volunteers the basics enough that they were comfortable running the board the next few weeks.

Given all your needs I really think your best option is the Yamaha LS9 (yes, I'm just going to favor one console over another!).

So, before you buy an analog I really encourage you at least get a demo of an LS9 and try it out... If at the end you still feel analog is the best then you'll know that you tried all the options.

[liko81]

Originally Posted by Les

Like I said before, I think you'd be happy with the A&H GL2800 (or alternatively, the IM.

But, in your search for a digital and consideration you really took a step up in price and complexity (for new users) and kinda bypassed a group of digital consoles. I can see where if you're not familiar with digital how an iLive would be intimidated.

The LS9 is a little intimidating to get setup for a novice user but once it's setup and it's minor tweaking week to week then it's very simple. I have trained, in one afternoon, some very "green" volunteers the basics enough that they were comfortable running the board the next few weeks.

Given all your needs I really think your best option is the Yamaha LS9 (yes, I'm just going to favor one console over another!).

So, before you buy an analog I really encourage you at least get a demo of an LS9 and try it out... If at the end you still feel analog is the best then you'll know that you tried all the options.

Actually, I think "intimidating" is a little bit of an understatement. An LS9 can do a LOT, and at the same time its control set is very minimalist (a LOT of button pushing is required just to EQ this board, never mind patching, sends, even scene/channel naming). I cannot imagine wanting an LS9 for a church sound system without having a laptop with SM sitting right next to it, and if money and space weren't an object (they usually are) I would ask for an M7CL just to get a touchscreen and a complete common control set. If you want to really use an LS9 well, at least one person in your media team (preferably more) is going to have some serious reading to do and will need a good bit of hands-on playtime to get comfortable with it.

That said, I would tend to agree that the LS9 can be set up to be virtually idiot-proof for a week or two. All you need is to set the board up with well-named channels/mixes/matrices, then set up scenes for each change to the mix on the cue sheet with a good average-case mix, and finally set up two UDKs; "next scene" and "previous scene". Given that, you could sit anyone down at that board, show them the two UDKs, and hand them a cue sheet.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by Les

But, in your search for a digital and consideration you really took a step up in price and complexity (for new users) and kinda bypassed a group of digital consoles. I can see where if you're not familiar with digital how an iLive would be intimidated.

One factor is that the iLive is a family of products, so without knowing details that reference is more to a potential range of mixing systems and associated costs than it is a specific product.

Originally Posted by Les

The LS9 is a little intimidating to get setup for a novice user but once it's setup and it's minor tweaking week to week then it's very simple. I have trained, in one afternoon, some very "green" volunteers the basics enough that they were comfortable running the board the next few weeks.

What I find to be an important consideration for many venues including churches is that not every potential operator needs to be able to configure the console from scratch or even deal with many of the console setup and configuration aspects. It is easy to intimidate some people by delving into aspects of a digital console that they will not have to initially, if ever, address. For example, someone needs to understand the concept of soft patching the physical inputs to mix input channels and the mix buses to physical outputs, but once configured that is not an aspect most people would need to address during a normal use. Or on an LS9, setting up the console may require understanding the whole FIXED mix versus VARI mix issue and how to properly configure the console for their use, however a casual user may simply need to know that a mix is an aux or a group, if that, and not need to know or even should know how to change that.

So while many digital consoles can be very intimidating, if you break it down into what most users actually need to know and access and then focus just on that, it may not be nearly as difficult.

Originally Posted by Les

Given all your needs I really think your best option is the Yamaha LS9 (yes, I'm just going to favor one console over another!).

There are several others you might also consider. For example, we're talking about an A&H GL console, so there's the new A&H GLD digital console that packages much of the iLive electronics and user interface at a lower price. The brand new Behringer X32 might even be an option, only 32 mix channels but you can have a greater number of physical inputs and assign the active inputs for the 32 channels. And both of those would use a digital snake for at least some of the stage connectivity, potentially aiding in addressing the increased physical I/O at the stage and getting that to and from the mixer.

[Tim Padrick]

Originally Posted by Tim Padrick

I've yet to encounter a Yamaha analog I liked other than the PM series. Go A&H.

That being said, IMHO if they can properly operate an analog rig, they can learn a StudioLive, SL9, Soundcraft SI, or Roland 480.

I forgot the most interesting one: The A&H GLD.

[Les]

Originally Posted by Brad Weber

There are several others you might also consider. For example, we're talking about an A&H GL console, so there's the new A&H GLD digital console that packages much of the iLive electronics and user interface at a lower price. The brand new Behringer X32 might even be an option, only 32 mix channels but you can have a greater number of physical inputs and assign the active inputs for the 32 channels. And both of those would use a digital snake for at least some of the stage connectivity, potentially aiding in addressing the increased physical I/O at the stage and getting that to and from the mixer.

I considered those in my head - I made my recommendation and I stick by it. There are always other options and I know some people are hesitant to make a specific recommendation but I'm not in this case.

32 physical faders on one layer (easier in my opinion than the layering a GLD would require for volunteers).
It's a familiar console to many different operators, many probably local to the church.
It's been proven in the field for years.
Analog inputs, compatible with their existing setup with minimal re-cabling.

Until the Behringer unit actually comes out and gets used in the field for a while I won't recommend it to anyone.

Like I said, MY recommendation is to demo an LS9 and if it doesn't work or they still feel analog is the best choice then they've got a couple of good options to work with.

[michaelnorman]

At my church we had the same issue at the start of the year. We where leaning towards the A&H but what changed our minds was we went to another local church that used a LS9. After seeing it actually being used by another church we decided to get the LS9, we where also able to get the main guy from the other church to come and give us a lesson on how to use it. Also, if you get the LS9, I found it a lot easier to just fiddle around on the studio manager as it made more sense to me, and i didn't have to be stuck at church, able to learn at home while watching tv. Also the ipad with the stage mix app is great as you can control the desk from it so you can mix the AUX's standing right next to the person who is using that feed, Also its a lot easier to adjust the eq with the ipad app as well