New Behringer X32

[pdc]

March 30....maybe

No release date on the Aviom knock-off

[cmchamp]

I've been eyeing that, but no news from the big B to their dealer network that I'm aware of. If there was, I may have missed it over the past few weeks. Pretty hectic at home.

[cmchamp]

Hmmm, the info I've got is May 15 as a tentative ship date for the X-32.
Tentative date on the personal monitor system is March 31.
I just checked my sources info.
C.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by cmchamp

Hmmm, the info I've got is May 15 as a tentative ship date for the X-32.
Tentative date on the personal monitor system is March 31.
I just checked my sources info.

Online sources, including Behringer's Facebook page, say the P16-M will be available from AMS and Sweetwater beginning around January 22. And some online retailers claim a March 30 date for the X32.

Combine the vagary in release dates for dealers, a web page that says both "coming soon" and "BUY NOW!", that the X32 was first announced about 14 months ago, was first shown to the public about 11 months ago and has apparently had multiple interim tentative release dates, starting at Q2/Q3 of last year, and Behringer seems to either not understand that such practices are not practical or acceptable in the pro and install markets or is not intending the X32 as to serve those markets. If A&H keeps with the release of the GLD-80 just weeks after announcing it the difference in approaches and the related intended markets and applications will be rather obvious.

[pdc]

QSC and Mackie have at least decided not talked about their digital console, which may or may not happen. They should not have announced it at all IMO until the deal was done.

I think vaporware has hurt manufacturers.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by pdc

QSC and Mackie have at least decided not talked about their digital console, which may or may not happen. They should not have announced it at all IMO until the deal was done.

I think vaporware has hurt manufacturers.

It is definitely a killer for Consultants. And for Contractors, I pity anyone who bid or quoted an X32 based on the initially projected dates and then had to go back and either offer something like a StudioLive or a console that cost significantly more. It is difficult to specify or quote equipment that may not be purchased for months or years from manufacturers who are bad about meeting projected availability dates for new gear, giving advance notice regarding discontinuing models and helping with related situations when they do occur.

This is where things, to me, get very interesting in reference to the Behringer X32. Most pro/commercial product manufacturers either use Manufacturer Representatives or in-house resources for dealer and consultant support. Most also distribute products direct, through the reps or through dedicated distribution companies. This allows Contractors, Consultants, etc. to obtain support and products through parties other than dealers. The Midas and Klark-Teknik lines of MUSIC Group have manufacturer reps that deal with pro/commercial dealers, contractors and consultant, however those firms do not represent Behringer. In 2010 Behringer apparently ended all rep relationships and moved to strategic alliances with specific mass retailers for distribution. At least as far as I am aware, Behringer has no consultant liaisons or similar roles and a search for Behringer dealers within 25 miles of where I am located, which is in a major metropolitan area, gives only music stores and production companies, not a single contractor or pro/install dealer or rep is listed.

Maybe Cory or someone else can speak as to the options for Behringer dealers, however a Contractor or Consultant who is not a Behringer dealer is apparently supposed to go through the mass retailers or listed dealers for any information and support. A call to a local rep or a contact at the manufacturer and I can usually get a PreSonus, Yamaha, A&H, Soundcraft, Avid/Digidesign, DigiCo, Mackie and even Midas console for evaluation or demo, however there is no similar option that I know of available for the X32. If a Client asks me about demoing the X32 apparently my only option is to offer to meet then at Guitar Center or one of the local music store dealers once they start carrying them.

These may not be significant issues for many Behringer products but they seem to likely be much more relevant with a product like the X32. The X32 approach to date supports why Behringer products will continue to have limited acceptance in professional and commercial systems.

[cmchamp]

Brad & all.
I am a Behringer Contractor/Dealer, the first to my knowledge since Starin Marketing in Chesterton IN became Behringer's distributor. I signed up because of the loss of another "budget and disposable" line through another distribution channel... that being Alto Pro Audio, who's products recommended and used by me were rock solid. Alto Pro Audio is now part of the Neumark/Alesis group. To my knowledge from what I was told, Behringer is not that interested in adding more brick and mortar MI retailers, but creating relationships with Consultants and contractors.

To my knowledge, Starin Marketing IS Behringer's US distributor the manufacturer's rep for the bulk of the country as well.
As for Demo stock, I've asked, but when I asked, the only X32 there was was the prototype used at the shows.

Brad, with your permission, I'd like to send your comments above to my rep at Starin, so they can weigh the weight and clarity of your comments.

Let me make another side comment for personal reputation's sake to avoid the brand beating... As with everything else I recommend and provide for my clients, if I've not used it personally, or have conferred with someone who has used it personally, I don't recommend it. PERIOD!

That said, the Xenyx line of mixers are a knock off of the Midas Venice, but with 60mm faders instead of 100mm, and single circuit board instead of individual channel strip boards. I purchased an XL1600 because I needed a substitute board to fill in for my A&HGL2 while I repaired it, and the XL1600 met my I/O needs. The XL1600 is not as "warm" as the GL2, but it's cleaner than I remember my last Mackie being.

I also have an iNuke series amplifier which I put through it's paces. You can find that by searching the Audio forum. I purchased the amp to see what it's quality was. It is presently in my singing group's rack as our mains amplifier. I use a QSCRMX450 for monitors since it's older and the pots are dirty.

I also have had their B212D speakers and was very pleased with the quality, though thought they might be a bit less heavy. Those were sold to a singing group in southern Ohio last month.

My personal experience with their newer products, and correspondence with Music Group Service is that the quality overall is improving. Your mileage may vary.

Demo's of new products... Wish I had the $$ to invest in some demo stock, but I've had to sell my Alto PS4A's and my Behringer B212D's to pay bills. Things are really really slow. I'll ask my rep to see what the possibilities are.

[Brad Weber]

Cory, feel free to forward on my comments. The general issue of how the MUSIC Group encompassing multiple brand names with two significantly different distribution and support approaches is one that I think many people have wondered about in terms of 'crossover' products. More on that below.

My original intent was really to make the point that the distribution and sales process Behringer has created is based on mass market, lower cost commodity products with minimal support required or offered. It looks as though that process is also going to be applied to 'crossover' products like the X32. The result is that if a church considers a Behringer X32 they should keep in mind that it will not have the kind of support that may be expected for and associated with many other digital consoles. Demos, product training, etc. are going to more challenging for contractors and consultants to offer, not only are the essentially on their own for such services but there is much more limited profit in a potential sale to cover the associated costs.


As far as details on distribution and support, Behringer's web site identifies Starin Distribution as one of their US 'Partners', however other US 'Partners' listed include Amazon.com (seriously), American Musical Supply, AP Sound (All Pro Sound?), Guitar Center, Mini Max Electronics (123DJ), Musician's Friend, Pro Music Group (Pro Sound & Stage Lighting/PSSL), Shoreview Distribution, SOS Associates (?), Sound Works (?) and Sweetwater Sound.

Maybe Behringer is looking at Starin and perhaps Shoreview as the support entities for US contractors and consultants, however Behringer's web site identifies Music Group Services US as the sales and distribution office for the US and Canada. Music Groups Services US is also shown as an exhibitor for InfoComm 2012 and the description for them lists only Behringer, apparently K-T and Midas are not being exhibited at InfoComm.

So The MUSIC Group is the holding company for Behringer. Music Group Services US is apparently the Behringer US sales and distribution office and is who is exhibiting Behringer at InfoComm. Starin is apparently one of several 'Partners' along with some large, and some online only, MI retailers and Amazon.com. And all the dealers Behringer lists on their web site seem music stores or production companies that also sell gear. So who does one contact for anything other than to purchase a Behringer product from a retailer or to sign up as a Behringer dealer through a distributor 'partner'?

[hoosierdraft]

Just saw the X32 at Sweetwater Gearfest. Gamechanger, period. 32 channel digital console at street price of $2800. Sweetwater says they are shipping July 27th. Also saw the new P16 Aviom killer. $200 per unit and doesn't need anything besides a CAT5 cable coming from the console. I think they will sell a few of these.

[Frank DeWitt]

For a very detailed discussion of features go to
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsit...iscussion.html
The factory and beta testers are fielding questions.
I won't be buying but it is interesting.

Frank

[Richard Tarr]

You can see a demo video at http://vimeo.com/44203998

[hoosierdraft]

Correction on pricing for the X32. Street price of $2899. Sweetwater's running it at $2549 during the two days of Gearfest. Did I mention flying faders, led channel scribble strip, dedicated channel strip, eight channels of effects, USB two track recorder? How about the 16/8 stage box for $600?

Might be time to get past your ADA8000 failures Frank.