New Behringer X32

[pdc]

They are not flying faders. Flying Faders is the name of an automation system. They are motorized faders for sure. All of it sounds like a great idea, but as with all things Behringer and now Midas, only time will tell if it will work as advertised....and hold up.

[pdc]

oops.

[pdc]

Originally Posted by Richard Tarr

You can see a demo video at http://vimeo.com/44203998

That is not a demo. A demo allows you to hear it work. This is the same no-audio producing presentation they have done for a while.

The guy is gushing over Behringer. He can't be serious. Cutting edge? Only when they copy someone else's work....or buy a company.

[Frank DeWitt]

Originally Posted by hoosierdraft

CMight be time to get past your ADA8000 failures Frank.

Then I would need to get over this.
http://lbpinc.com/tester.jpg

Frank

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by hoosierdraft

Just saw the X32 at Sweetwater Gearfest. Gamechanger, period. 32 channel digital console at street price of $2800. Sweetwater says they are shipping July 27th. Also saw the new P16 Aviom killer. $200 per unit and doesn't need anything besides a CAT5 cable coming from the console. I think they will sell a few of these.

Just to follow up on my earlier comments...

In January the Live Sound Manager for MUSIC Group indicated that the ELX line array products would be available in late June. And not too long ago I was assured by a fairly highly placed MUSIC Group rep that with the introduction of the X32 mixer, P16 personal mixer and ELX line arrays products they were going to be making a serious commitment to the installed sound market and addressing many of the concerns I had previously noted here and elsewhere. I was invited to stop by the Behringer booth at InfoComm and see this for myself.

So at InfoComm I did stop by the Behringer booth and they had the new products there, however I did not spend much effort looking at them. The ELX line array products are apparently still vaporware and there is no associated software or technical information available to system designers. When I asked the Behringer rep about factory support for technical support and information their response was that I should use the same resources made available for consumers. When I asked about demos and pricing I was told to contact a dealer. When I explained how some people needed direct factory and/or independent rep support I was literally told they had no response. Unless I became a dealer they could not offer a single contact or resource other than those available to any consumer. I posted that experience in the same forum where I had received the indication of how things were changing and there has yet to be any response. So at least based on my experience, the reality of Behringer's commitment to the installed sound market seems to still be falling far short of the promises made.

For some comparison, Bose was also promoting a new commitment to the pro and installed audio market. At InfoComm they had a dedicated consultant event and I now have three or four direct factory contacts. And in the week following InfoComm I received not only follow up contacts but also a copy of Modeler, Bose's prediction software, and an invitation to an all expenses paid training session. This is not promoting Bose but simply showing two significantly different experiences.

So while I am sure Behringer will sell a huge number of the X32 mixers and other new products, my experience so far indicates that the related support and distribution is likely be the same as for any of their MI products and not that of a professional installed sound market product.

Also relevant to the X32, someone pointed out that you need to look carefully at Behringer's three year warranty as the warranty on meters, switches, pots, faders, drivers and diapraghms and "Any mechanical component that may be affected by externally applied force" is limited to one year while the warranty on power adapters and power supplies is limited to 90 days. So many of the aspects of a mixing console that might experience problems are apparently not covered by the three year warranty.

[Frank DeWitt]

Originally Posted by Brad Weber

Just to follow up on my earlier comments...

Snip

So while I am sure Behringer will sell a huge number of the X32 mixers and other new products, my experience so far indicates that the related support and distribution is likely be the same as for any of their MI products and not that of a professional installed sound market product.

Also relevant to the X32, someone pointed out that you need to look carefully at Behringer's three year warranty as the warranty on meters, switches, pots, faders, drivers and diapraghms and "Any mechanical component that may be affected by externally applied force" is limited to one year while the warranty on power adapters and power supplies is limited to 90 days. So many of the aspects of a mixing console that might experience problems are apparently not covered by the three year warranty.

This is sobering. Put in a church context, A sound guy could spend a few years getting permission to spend $2800 on a new mixer (A major purchase for most churches.) and worst case, be back in front of the board 18 months later later saying "Its broken, not reparable and I need another $3,000

Put another way, for a small ticket item we can throw it away and buy a new one. For big ticket I need to be able to fix it. That means either I need to be able to fix it my self, or call the guy that sold it to me and get him to get it fixed and send me a loner.

That doesn't seem to be an option with the X32

Frank

[Esoteric]

To be fair Frank, I didn't see where it couldn't be fixed. Just that it would not be under warranty.

[wogster]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

To be fair Frank, I didn't see where it couldn't be fixed. Just that it would not be under warranty.

That would depend on the vendor having parts and repair costs being reasonable. Telling someone that their $3,000 board needs $2,000 to repair it, in 2 years, isn't reasonable, when you could have bought a decent 5 year old analog board for half the money that will run into the next decade without problems.

[pdc]

Here is the kicker. The service center buy in for parts is staggering. In the KC market, there is only one authorized service center, and he is closing up shop. So in a market like this, where GC and others will be flooding the markets with this stuff, there is no place to take it. We won't service it. We do the replacement when we can. It is not worth servicing. If most dealers just replace and get a credit (which they do), and most dealers do not have a digital tech (and they don't), then customers are going to get the big kiss off, because dealers are NOT going to give up pre-sold inventory. I don't think people have really thought this out completely.

[Esoteric]

Of course, but an analog console is not a digital console. If you buy a digital console for 1/3 the cost of another value console then you want to keep $3000 in reserve for a replacement console. Its like buying a Ford Fiesta, you dont expect it to last as long as a Honda Accord.

[Frank DeWitt]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

Of course, but an analog console is not a digital console. If you buy a digital console for 1/3 the cost of another value console then you want to keep $3000 in reserve for a replacement console. Its like buying a Ford Fiesta, you don't expect it to last as long as a Honda Accord.

I think (and I hope) another way is coming at us. The mixers are coming apart. they aren't all in one box any more and sloely we are seeing setups where you can replace or upgrade parts.

It makes sense. With digital, there is no reason to have the audio, the engine, and the control surface in one box. They don't even need to be within 100 ft of one-another.

You can buy a A&H I live mix rack and add the control surface later, or just run it with a PC. Mackie is selling a mixer with no control surface at all. The SAC system takes things to another level. An engine, Preamps and line amps, Displays, control surfaces all seperate. I hope that catches on.

I have been in the position of thinking, "I like this mixer. I don't want to change, but 32 is no longer enough, I need to move to 40." OK, here is a small amount of money, thanks for the 8 ch preamp, Now I have 40.

That is a wonderful position to be in.

We had a power supply go out in our engine (PC) Drop in the backup PC, the sound is back. We put the original PC back in service a month later. It just wasn't a problem.

I look forward to others doing the same thing.

Frank

[pdc]

As long as you guys build consoles upon personal computers, you will always be tweaking, upgrading, etc. People with these systems are never satisfied. These people do not generally own Macs, because they want to be able to mess with stuff. That is my observation of the SAC guys I know.

Building and working with gear that emulates the appearance of real gear is idiotic to me. NOT ONE of these types of interfaces is as fast as having the real deal. The person to make a fake interface as fast as the real wins in my book. All of the DAEs are going to sound the same.

Someone mentioned the A&H iLive. The touch screens are an issue for me. The GLD is very tricky for people with non-skinny fingers. It takes a bit to get used to.