1U mic mixer for spoken PA

[ptechie]

I am looking for a simple mixer to support the following inputs
2 lav priest mics
2 occasional hand held mics
1 podium mic
1 computer input for occasional video clips used in the sermon

Our praise band now uses a separate system and their old system is being used for the spoken PA. It consists of a powered Yamaha EMX 5000 20 channel and a messy bookshelf of wireless receivers. This all sits in front of the first pew so it is in sight when people come up for communion. As only a fraction of the console is now used I want to replace the Yamaha with a small 1U mixer and stand alone amplifier in a nicer rack arrangement.
I have started looking at the Shure SCM 810 as it looks like I can just set it and forget for most instances. (It also regularly appears in the used market.)

For the praise band service someone runs slides in the same location as the mixer and could be instructed to mute or adjust the podium mic as necessary if their is bleed from the band. The other services are either no music or an acoustic piano and a non-mic choir.

Does anyone have any experience with the SCM810 or similar mixers?
Any questions or other suggestions.

Moving the entire system to the back of the church and/or combining with the praise band is off the table for now.

Thanks all and have a wonderful Christmas.

[ntravis]

It seems like the Rolls RM82 might fit the bill for your application. It is much cheaper than the Shure mixer, includes XLR inputs and even has some very basic EQ on each channel. I was curious, why do you want to have a separate audio system for spoken word and the worship band?

[Tim Padrick]

Ashly Audio has one or more 1U mixers, dunno the features though.

[waynehoskins]

Ashly, Whirlwind (US Audio), A&H, and others have some to choose from. As I recall, their processing and routing options are fairly limited, far less than a full-size console. I don't know if that would be an important factor in your installation or not.

Another route to consider would be a DSP like a Soundweb functioning as a mostly-automatic mixer. That would give you the processing and routing options with a limited number of physical controls you could add (that you could set up as volume knobs, for example). That's the sort of solution I'd look to in an assembly/lecture system, which it seems your application might at least partly be.

[rePete]

The Ashly LX308B can only handle 2 mic inputs. Six line in channels, stereo.
Probably not the best solution.

Pete

[Les]

Wayne and I have done what he described on several systems using a DSP type system. It works great and everyone loves the system. Simple and extremely effective.

You can find used BSS Soundwebs or their older series for $400-$800 on eBay. TOA, Ashley, and Rane make options as well.

Typically it's 8 inputs that can be assigned anyway you like (mic or line) and you can have analog controls that will handle simple volume controls or mute controls. You can either attach those to some audio pots or simple switches in a custom panel.

It's great for volunteers who just need simple volume or mute control plus you have a fully featured mixer behind the simple controls. You can have your full EQ, compression, limiting, etc which you can't find in an analog 1RU mixer.

[ptechie]

The BSS Soundweb looks really great. In most cases can you easily creates a set up that doesn't need intervention to work? What if the priests switch mics? Will we need to go into the profile and tweak it so it works? Thank you.

[ptechie]

I have been reading a lot about automatic mixers. Most people are using them for situations with multiple mics in use at the same time. We don't have the problem of multiple mics causing problems or background noise as the priests lavs are turned off when aren't speaking and it is almost always only one person speaking at a time. Will it help with different speakers at a podium mic? First speaker is quiet, then the next speaker is much louder into the same mic? Same for the lavs. If the priests switch mics between weeks or a guest comes. Will an automatic mixer adjust for the different loudness of the speaker? If it doesn't do this I am just as well off with a non-automatic mixer.

[coolbaci]

Hi,

Best bet for SoundWeb is to download the software from bss audio. You want the Soundweb Designer. Then put the components together as you wish, the help file contains a tutorial on how to set it up and what each component can do. You can have compressors, limiters etc to control levels, there is in automatic mixer I believe which will pick audio from the strongest source and mute others.

As others have mentioned, you can also wire up some simple switches and pots to control levels. Details on how to do this are in the help file also.

[daver2]

I notice from the bss audio website that they have a sample configuration file for a Soundweb Lite 3088 processor as a starting point for a small Church setting with: 4 * microphone inputs + a stereo input source + input from a small band mixer. This doesn't sound ten million miles away from what you want (as a starting point). Be aware though that the soundweb lite has been discontinued.

If you consider going down this route, I would suggest downloading the software and documentation first and 'having a play' (sorry - engineer familiarisation) with the product to identify what it can do and (more importantly) where the potential limitations are. At least when you ask for a demo - you will be partially familiar with the product and some of the technical terms that will be used by the sales engineer.

I originally looked at a similar thing for our Church before we ditched the idea and went digital. It sounds like a good idea to automate everything - but I think the reality is that this cannot be practically achieved with "non professional" people. Compressors, expanders and gates can go some way to solving your problems - but EQ is also a very important part - as is getting the maximum gain for very quiet speakers (but without feedback). A small amount of training at the audio source can help much more than all of the automation ever can!

Before going down this route - I would seriously consider writing a full specification about what you want the system to do and getting a few demos in first before deciding. Ahead of that - you need to do your homework and find out the capabilities and flaws of such a system. By the sound of your questions you already have a few ideas of where some of the problems potentially lie. You need to get sensible and consistent answers to your concerns before moving ahead.

Dave

[Tim Padrick]

I thought about changing the theater over to the Soundweb 9088iis units that the day job was selling - until I found that one cannot make changes live, nor can one upload from the unit. So if my computer dies and/or I loose the file, I have to start from scratch in order to make any changes. I stuck to the Rane RPMs.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by ptechie

Moving the entire system to the back of the church and/or combining with the praise band is off the table for now.

I agree with Dave and recommend thinking a bit about the whole situation, both now and longer term, before doing anything.

It sounds like you are currently serving one congregation during a service by running two totally separate praise band and 'speech' audio systems. In fact it sounds like you might even be looking at one person running the praise band mix and another the 'speech' mix with no relation to or communication with one another. Why spend money for what seems to be effectively even further segregating the systems? I would at least consider options to better integrate everything.

Beyond just the mixer, another component in any decision would seem to be practical issues such as power locations, cabling paths, antenna locations and so on. If all of the associated existing microphone and speaker wiring runs to the current mixer location, what will be involved in getting cabling to the proposed location? If you are moving the wireless receivers have you verified they will work in the new location? Do you have power and physical space for the equipment where you want it located?

Before making any decisions you might also want to really think about how you use the existing EMX5000 mixer. The faders and channel mute functions seem obvious from your comments, but what about the aux sends for monitors, ancillary audio, ALS, recording, etc., do you use those? Do you use any of the onboard digital effects? How about the three band equalization on each input channel or the nine band output equalization? Do you make use of any of the signal level, signal presence or clip indicators? While it the idea of simplifying things may sound nice, you may want to make sure that doing so will not lose functionality that you only then realize that you used more than you thought.

I also agree in terms of 'automatic' operation. At least in my experience, there is only so much you can automate or preset for most church applications. Over automate things and not only can it become more difficult to accommodate any deviations from 'the norm' but you can start negatively impacting the use of the system. For example, you could potentially create a system that tries to automatically maintain a relatively constant volume level, or at least keep it within limits, but how might that affect 'a whisper to a shout' being intentionally used to convey a message?

On some details, unless you add external controls many simple audio mixers are not going to provide functions such as user friendly muting. You mentioned the Shure SCM810 so using that as an example there is no front panel input mute functionality. One option for microphone muting would be to manually turn the inputs up and down as needed, the other would be to build external muting control and status indicator circuitry to interface with the mixer's rear panel remote control. Neither approach seems to really simplify operation.

The matrix DSP option can be a good one for some applications. With such a device you are basically creating an digital analog of an analog system within the DSP programming. You can also usually get fairly advanced in terms of the signal processing and routing incorporated, if so desired. However, to use such a device you have to be able to both effectively define the analog system desired and its settings, then create that using the DSP's programming software. You can operate most DSP devices by having a computer running the appropriate software connected to the DSP device. If the goal is to have basic external controls without having a computer that is usually possible but also often the more difficult aspect as the associated control logic programming and interfacing is sometimes much more challenging than the audio related programming.

In summary, you might want to invest in assessing all of the potential ramifications of such a change before proceeding. It may indeed turn out to be the direction you want to go, but try to do so with as much understanding of the potential impact as possible.