FOH: Soundcraft or Allen & Heath

[fduvekot]

Hello,

Since three years now, we started with a smal band in our church. For several reasons (a.o.: budget and 'will this stand for more than one year') we choose budget equipment.
Mostly we perform with 6-8 musicians: Electric Drums, Stage Piano, Gitars, and woodwinds / flutes. Sometimes we have 2-4 vocals.

Audiance: between 60-150 people, depending on the type of worship.
Room: a small church, appr. 170 m2.
Na separate monitoring console: all done by FOH.


Now we want to professionalize our audio, and we can use some help in choosing the correct mixer.
At the beginning, we picked a cheap Peavey PV20 USB mixer to start with (it was a good choice that time, given the options and budget we had)

And now we are facing some troubles, f.i. the number of auxes and the ability to have a good mix (no PFL/AFL).

So we want to replace our mixer, and we are looking for a console with:

• 16 channels (2 stereo for Drums & Piano ?)
• > 5 AUX
• Seperate L/R (C is optional)
• Some Mute groups (f.i. Mute all / gitars / woodwinds / vocals)
• Good EQ
• subgroups (gitars / woodwinds / vocals?)
• AFL/PFL
• Ability to use external sound processing / sound effects

We had some advice to look into the Soundcraft GB series. (GB4-16 or GB8-24)
A friend of mine recommmended the A&H GL2800 series.
He also recommended to use extra channels for returns of the sound processing, so to look at 24channel mixers in stead of 16.

And we keep an eye on digital mixers. I visited a seminar with Roland V-Mixers (M-480) , amazing stuff, all built in effects, soundprocessing, gates / compressors etc.

Because we rent the building, we can not have fixed installations, we need to clear the room after performance.
For this reason, digital snakes would be great for placing our equipment (every 2 weeks)


So, here my questions:
Above mentioned consoles, logical options for our purposes?
Anyone having experience with the Soundcraft GB4/8 Series and/or the A&H GL2800 series.
Any advice when looking into digital consoles? I only read positive reviews on the Roland V-Mixers, but anyone having hands-on experience in a live session?


Hope you can give some advice.
If any more info is needed, please ask.
Thanks in advance!

(never mind my lousy English .. I'm Dutch )

[stevelam]

Hey welcome to our Forum. Your english is better than most Americans I know

Have you looked at the Midas VeniceF mixers too? I am getting one to test soon and all reports so far say they are amazing.

[waynehoskins]

Digital mixers are nice. In the Roland camp, I've only worked with the M400 (predecessor to the M480), on just one show, and while it was easy enough to operate, it had a very few audio things not to my liking: the head amps had a bit more noise than I thought they should (I gated most of it out, but I shouldn't have to do that) and the dynamics thresholds couldn't be set as low as I wanted for a couple of things. Maybe the M480 addresses these things, and overall it would be a good candidate for you because of the digi-snake integration. If you're planning to use the personal monitor modules as well, it'd definitely be a top contender simply because it integrates very well as a system.

For analog, I generally prefer A&H. Midas is nice, but most of us can't afford a large-format Midas console, and small-format Midas doesn't seem any better than A&H GL to me. The downside to analog in cases like yours is the lack of outboard (which takes more room and time) and the need for a large snake (multicore).

I would seriously consider a console with a Cat5 digi-snake, such as the Roland M480, and see if the appropriate number of Cat5 lines, with perhaps a couple of spares, could be installed at the venue from stage to somewhere near FOH. If that's possible, it could really make your setup faster, more reliable, cleaner, and it's pretty inexpensive to do.

[Brad Weber]

I would look at a larger console than you think you need now as you will inevitably find new sources or new uses, especially since you are not locked into any existing fixed infrastructure and cabling. If possible I would run drums and piano into two separate channels rather than into a stereo input as that allows for greater flexibility and leaves any stereo channels open for sources such as CD, computers, program audio from video sources, etc.

You mentioned wanting to support outboard effects and processing, do you already have some such devices? If not then that may be something to consider in terms of digital versus analog consoles. I think that digital consoles are often a great choice for portable churches as it not only allows you to have a significant complement of effects and processing without having to deal with other equipment and connections, but it can simplify setup.

Do you have a goal for the budget? Are there limitations or preferences on what brands or products are available to you?

I find it ironic when people apologize for their poor English when they are better with it than some for whom it is supposedly their native language.

[[Director] drew ryan]

Another console that you should take a look at is the Presonus Studio Live. They have a 24 channel version. The nice thing is that it has onboard effects, and dynamics. It also sounds amazing. We had an older Allen and Heath GL4000 in a smaller system. We replaced it with the Studio Live and it was like taking a blanket off of the speakers. That says a lot to me as I am a huge fan of the A&H mic pres and eq.

[fduvekot]

Thanks all for sharing your thoughts
We will look into Presonus Studio Live and Midas VeniceF as well.

Your tip to take onboard effect into account when investigating digital consoles: thanks, we will definitely do so: it wil indeed increase setup time, (and increase storage room)

The same for the multicore: We might be able to install a standard netwerk cable fixed in church, but installling a thick multicore .... think the owners won't allow us.

For now, we are investigating all options, no limitations on brands and we have no budget yet (which does not mean we can afford everything with only 200 church menbers)
About personal monitoring: a beautifull option, but this costs too much for now. We will have to use small monitor speakers. Or use in-ear with f.i. a Behringer HA4700 headphone amplifier and standard earphone-plugs.

Any other comments are still welcome of course!

(all: thanks for compliments on my language)