Consoles:Analogue vs. Digital

[ansius]

1) cliping is not alowaed in any type of mixing desk. this was ment more that analog is not limited in it's resolition in given working range. 16bit gives only 65536 positions, it is sort of ok with sound but any calculations (fx, eq) reduce given amount of resolution in data leading to greater loses in sound quality than in analog circity, but offers less noise than analog -> witch is better think your self.
2) can you fix digital console on the road in 30 min with what you have with you in tour? you can do that with analog.
3) depends on what you say is good. if you talk most perfect - digital does better, if you talk smooth analog wins. it is like comparing photography with oil painting. one is acurate other has diferent value even tough not that acurate reproduction.
4)I didn't say analog has less THD, it is different. if talking about tubes - it sounds way nicer. tubes has less noise if corectly used than solidstate. tubes don't mess up musical contents (2nd and 3rd harmonics represent octave and perfect 5th in music theory wich always fit)

discusion is more about gle and the way to get there. If my goal is nice sounding mix, even if it has more thd and is not that strile perfect - analog gives me the easiest way to get there. If I want the most detail and the most clean sound analog cant do that.

it is like a two diferent tools, NONE is BETTER! both have pros and cons, I find my self liking the analog sound, though there are things that digital offers way better.

[Gracetech]

Originally Posted by ansius

1) cliping is not alowaed in any type of mixing desk. this was ment more that analog is not limited in it's resolition in given working range. 16bit gives only 65536 positions, it is sort of ok with sound but any calculations (fx, eq) reduce given amount of resolution in data leading to greater loses in sound quality than in analog circity, but offers less noise than analog -> witch is better think your self.
2) can you fix digital console on the road in 30 min with what you have with you in tour? you can do that with analog.
3) depends on what you say is good. if you talk most perfect - digital does better, if you talk smooth analog wins. it is like comparing photography with oil painting. one is acurate other has diferent value even tough not that acurate reproduction.
4)I didn't say analog has less THD, it is different. if talking about tubes - it sounds way nicer. tubes has less noise if corectly used than solidstate. tubes don't mess up musical contents (2nd and 3rd harmonics represent octave and perfect 5th in music theory wich always fit)

1. Actually Clipping is allowed in all consoles it's just not recommended. Analog consoles have resolution just like Digital consoles you can't get around it. You may think that they have infinite resolution but they don't. Mic pre's have stepping electronics as well as faders. Heck in analog consoles the sound has to go through more electronics about 5 times as much which degrades the signal even more. I can't tell you how many times i have proven people wrong that said they could hear the difference between analog and digital. The world is full of mysterious marvels that swear they can tell you what mics were used to record what instruments just by hearing it and i laugh in amazement(9 times out of 10 their wrong and the other time... well everyone gets lucky now and again).
2.Never ever have i had a digital console go down on tour except for some junky ones and i wouldn't ever suggest using those anyway. As far as analog consoles i could not even begin to tell you how many have been replaced mid tour due to "complications". Granted a good analog console will hold up well in a tour it's not like you generally carry a Master section around all the time. Usually a tour will have a couple or even a few channel strips and thats all.
3. Again i have proven to many engineers that they could not tell the difference in a hearing test. I mean digital consoles are the best of analog consoles(the pre's)and digital flexibility. If you want a digital console to have a tube sound then you can a) use a tube pre or b) use a tube software effect. Frankly i would choose a) in the studio but probably b) if on the road
4. Your preference is to say that tubes sound nicer but in fact some would disagree but at any rate it is your opinion. The catch with tubes is you have to know what your doing when using them to have the actually help and not harm. If you consider adding it's own sound not messing up the sound then sure it doesn't mess up the sound. I on the other hand like to let the sound be true to itself but to each their own. Tubes are great for different things don't get me wrong but you will never see me running through tubes just for the heck of it.

Originally Posted by ansius

1)
disscusion is more about gle and the way to get there. If my goal is nice sounding mix, even if it has more thd and is not that strile perfect - analog gives me the easiest way to get there. If I want the most detail and the most clean sound analog cant do that.

it is like a two diferent tools, NONE is BETTER! both have pros and cons, I find my self liking the analog sound, though there are things that digital offers way better.

Now that is a opinion well presented and glad that you enjoy the analog. I have helped people with their fears on moving to new and different things all my life and i can safely tell you that it's no easy task. Some times the benefits can't seem to out way the having to learn a new system. I love to learn and any tools that will benefit me i will jump all over weither it is analog or digital.

I hope you don't mind me rebuttaling your comments. I truly don't want to offend you but i sometimes feel that people have been handed the wrong knowledge or that they don't know either side so i will fill in the blanks for the opposite side of the argument.

crt