Digital PA speakers

[buggyboy]

I'm sure this will be beyond our mans right now, but I'm interested anyway.

In considering rewiring some remote speakers (cryroom, nursery, etc) I was wondering what is available in terms of digital pa units.

Normal speakers have to be impedance balanced by manipulating series vs. parallel connections.

70v systems fix that problem, but I haven't found a way to do smooth volume changes at the remote location. All the volume controls I've seen have about 10 levels, and that's it.

(did I miss something? I want to smoothly vary the volume at the remote speaker from full off to full on without "steps". Is there a way to do this?)



Then, on top of that, all analog systems have limited "zones". I would think any digital system could route audio to any single speaker, and any combinations of speakers.

So, what exists?

I found some like this.
http://www.praesideo.co.uk/
or this
http://www.pacat.co.uk/Plena/index.htm

But I shudder to imagine the cost.

Thanks!

[cmchamp]

You're looking for distribution options with an active (self amplified) speaker, correct?
How complex are your routing needs?

[buggyboy]

I'd imagine active speakers would make more sense than passive.

My needs are small, but I'm curious about what's out there.

I can think of maybe 5 zones I could possibly use, some of which could use an intercom type deal.

I'm thinking that something probably exists where you just run one big ethernet network, and then have speakers, mics, and control panels where ever you want.


But I'd be interested to see what sort of budget options are available.

[cmchamp]

do those 5 zones need to be on a matrix and have separate mixes, or all the same/similar mixes?

[buggyboy]

That's a fair question.

I'm not sure.

I could see perhaps having 2 mixes... one for the default mix, and a mix that could serve to send targeted messages. For example, have the sermon pumped to all speakers, then override that with a voice message to the kitchen to notify them of the progress of a sermon, or an override to the nursery to announce the start of an event.

Then again, I could see how it would be nice if the nursery could initiate a voice line to the sound desk.

Basically, I'm looking for something more versatile than hardwired zones.

[cmchamp]

A multi-channel com system (think theatre with com panels in green room, dressing rooms, etc.) is about all I could think of at the moment.
Do you have a com system at all in the church?

[buggyboy]

No, we are a blank slate as far as com systems.

Nothing particular is urgent. I just got curious.

[waynehoskins]

That sounds a lot like a classic application for Crown's now-ancient IQ system of "distributed-intelligence" automixers. The sample application they give in the literature is a train station.

For this, you could have a zone output for each room, use priority ducking to get the room-specific overrides, and use control inputs for things like program feed selection or volume.

IQ is a bit outdated now; these days AMX and Crestron are the big names in that application. It's worth investigating.

[Brad Weber]

Sound like the typical situation of first determining what it is you are really trying to do, then looking at potential solutions.

Even in theatre applications I tend to separate the program audio and communications systems. The problem with using the program audio functionality of many comms systems is that if someone turns down the speaker volume because they don't want to hear the program audio then unless you have a more complicated system that overrides the volume control they also don't hear any announcements.

Rane, Biamp, Lectrosonics, Ashly, TOA, Symetrix, ClearOne, etc. all offer smaller matrix DSP systems that also have several remote control options. A few of them also offer multi-channel amplifiers where instead of one large amp driving multiple speakers you have one smaller amp channel per zone. That sounds like ti might be an option, but it would really help to first nail down the goals.

[buggyboy]

I wasn't able to find much info on the crown iq, but crestron makes an interesting unit called sonnex that does the job. About 16 inputs and 8 zones for the base unit, more zones by adding expanders. Looks around 5-6 grand for the base unit. But this unit still has seperate outputs for each zone.


Do any pa systems send only audio and control signals...and not power... to the remote speakers? So only one output, Ethernet, to which all speakers are connected.

Brad is right of course, goals help with decision making. In this case I'm really just interested in seeing what is out there, more than solving a particular problem.

For example,
The mixer sends an aux buss to the control unit, which converts it to digital and sends it out over the ethernet network. Any speaker attached to the network can receive it.

The control unit can target any speaker, or group of speakers. So the speakers in all classrooms can be activated and put out the main mix, while all others are silent.
Or, all classrooms can be silent with the mix is targeting all hallway speakers, and a voice override is output to the staff area speakers.


Hard to describe this, but simple in concept.

All speakers attached to network, but only activate when the controller targets them (by ip address?).

Then to add a bit more complexity. Several units are placed in useful areas to remotly control the main control unit. So that by pressing a button on a remote control unit, the main control unit activates some preset.

and a bit more, some areas may have a mic along with the remote control. So those stations could cause the main controller to activate a preset connecting that mic station to some speaker or several speakers.

Another use of the mic/remote control/speaker station would be to activate a preset on the main controller to connect that station to another mic/remote control/speaker station in an intercom mode.

It's sort of the audio equivalent to digital signage. To show anything on any screen. to hear anything on any speaker.

Did any of that make sense?

[SamG269]

My question for you is why aren't you studying to have a career in this? You obviously have thousands of ideas that could be used... Sorry. Dont mean to interupt the topic. But thats what I think when I read alot of your posts. Put your gift to use man. And. You can make it yourself.

[buggyboy]

Well thanks Sam, that's very kind of you to say. Who can say where God may lead.
And it would definitely be a bonus to be able to make stuff myself! I'm actually starting to learn several fabrication and prototyping techniques for unrelated reasons, so maybe there is a grand plan after all.

Back on topic...
Brad, Wayne, Cory... Does anything like this exist for under 4 digits? Most of the commercial units I've come across that have these sort of capabilities are several grand for the base unit, and hundreds more for each speaker/station.

It seems like there must be a less refined, but lower cost, version somewhere?