Compact Subwoofer recommendations

[cozment]

New to the forum and glad I found it. We've got a small sanctuary that is basically a 44x50 size room with 12 foot ceilings. Our speakers consist of 2 Yamaha C115V's and an old Peavy Subcompact 18 subwoofer. The subwoofer has a QSC RMX1450 bridged for power and a subwoofer controller where we can control the frequencies. Due to the size and age of this subwoofer, it hardly puts out anything. We do have to put it in the back of the stage due to the size but even there, it lacks any punch. Currently, we're only running audio through it but we hope to grow the responsibilities of the subwoofer in our upgrade. I'd like a better sub that delivered a better and louder bass response but in a more compact case to where I could hide it on front of the stage somewhere. Once we can accomplish this, we'll then start running our bass guitar, bass drum, etc through it. Due to our sanctuary size, I believe we could run a single 18" for our needs. I've got a few I've been looking at and would greatly appreciate any recommendations. Subs I've looked at for size - JBL MRX518S, Yorkville LS608. I've never heard any of these but they look compact and seem to be getting good reviews. If needed. I could possibly switch around our amps and use our QSC RMX 2450 to push one of these.

[cmchamp]

Small, compact (low height) sub that's punchy and accurate would the the Yorkville LS701P. Awesome sounding box. Just under 100lbs, so it'd be a good thing you weren't moving it. It's active though, so you don't need an amp.
Why not a dual 12" or dual 15" on it's side?
Community's VLF212
ElectroVoice ELX118, QRX18s, XT118

The Yorkville LS608 is the passive version of their LS801P which is a nice sub for sure.
C.

[cozment]

So you've had experience hearing the LS701P? I did read some reviews about this and actually had looked at it as well. I saw people that liked it and some that did not. Of course, they were talking about live gigs and stuff. It seemed to have impressed a lot of people. Looking at the different ways to hook this sub up, it appears you can run power from an amp to this thing and then power your house speakers with this. Of course, I don't need this setup so I assume I would just be running our signal wire to it. We don't have any Yorkville dealers nearby so I'm having to go by experience from others when making our purchase.

[cmchamp]

I have used the LS700P (the 701's predecessor) for a little over a year when I sang with a quartet from Detroit. I had used it for DJing a few times as well because it was in my garage. We had two of them, but 2 was really overkill for what we needed.
Fortress Productions is a Yorkville and SLS dealer/contractor, as well as provides Community, ElectroVoice, QSC and many others to clients.
I'm sure there are other "compact" subs you could look at, such as the new subs from SLS, but I bet they're probably out of your price point.

[cmchamp]

As for signal, the LS701P does take speaker level, however, there's no crossover.
Use a crossover, send line level to it using a balanced XLR (new addition).

[Brad Weber]

I have to say that I am a bit unsure of your goals. Looking at the specifications for size, frequency response, sensitivity, output, etc. neither the LS608 nor the MRX518S seem to offer that much improvement over the existing Peavey Subcompact 18. Here's a spec summary:

Peavey Subcompact 18

• Size: 27.75" H x 23.75" W x 20" D
• Response: 47-200Hz, +/-3dB
• Sensitivity:99dB@1W/1M (whole space)
• Power: 350W continuous, 700W program.
• Maximum Output at 1m: 122dB (whole space)

Yorkville LS608

• Size: 23.1" H x 26.2" W x 24.6" D
• Response: 50-300Hz, +/-3dB
• Sensitivity:103dB@1W/1M (assumed as half space)
• Power: 800W program.
• Maximum Output at 1m: 132dB (assumed as half space)

JBL MRX518S

• Size: 22" H x 21" W x 27.5" D
• Response: 45-200Hz, +/-3dB
• Sensitivity:94dB@1W/1M (whole space), 100dB@1W/1M (half space)
• Power: 400W continuous, 800W program, 1,600W peak.
• Maximum Output at 1m: 133dB (peak, half space)

Looking at this information, once you account for whole space versus half space values, etc. there seems to be no significant gain in performance. For example, if you calculated the output based on a half space sensitivity and the rated Program power then that output numbers would be 132 dB for the Yorkville LS608, 129dB for the JBL MRX518S and 133dB for the Peavey Subcompact 18. That's not saying there might not be some real differences, however the basic specs don't support any reason to expect any significant improvement.

There certainly might be some gains in aspects such as level (although some of that might be offset by losing the rear wall boundary) and gain before feedback achieved by moving the subwoofer to the front of the stage. But again, based on the information above while the Peavey might have a bit larger face area that is not by much and it is also 4-1/2" to 7-1/2" shallower in depth, so there does not seem to be a really significant difference is size that would allow any difference in location.

Based on this, I think that perhaps the first step to take is to make sure that what you have is working properly and is configured optimally. If the "subwoofer controller" is actually a crossover or speaker system processor then verifying that its settings and the system gain structure are optimized might net you more improvement than the changes in speaker being considered.

[cozment]

Thanks for all of your input. We are currently doing just what you mentioned Brad concerning our existing subwoofer. I didn't originally hook up the subwoofer to our system but based on my evaluations, they have it installed as a subgroup and the subgroup slider controls the sound. I know they can assign different channels to be run by this subgroup so only those channels are affected but reading the forums here and doing my own investigating, I don't think this is the best hookup. Depending on our existing equipment, I'll either use one of the aux send channels or try splitting up the highs and lows with a processor. I have read both cases on this forum and both seem to have merits. Also, one other thing about this subwoofer is it's very old and outdated. It has lots of rattle inside of it. I am going to try different positions up front just to see how well it sounds after I hook it up differently. Based on those reviews will let me know if I need to get something bigger!

[Tim Padrick]

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tappe...ODEL=TH%20MINI

http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/growler

Both companies make very nice tops as well.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by Tim Padrick

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tappe...ODEL=TH%20MINI

http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/growler

Both companies make very nice tops as well.

In terms of being compact and offering some improvement in performance those were the same two products that immediately came to mind for me as well. However, you are looking at probably more like $1000 to $1200 rather than the around $700 of a Yorkville LS608 or JBL MRX518S.

While an aux or group fed sub configuration can offer some benefits, you still want to both high and low pass the subwoofer as well as to high pass the mains.

[Gracetech]

I'm with Brad on this. I'm not a Peavey fan but the Subcompact is a pretty powerful sub. It's accuracy and consistency could easily be brought into question but it definitely has the power to bring it. You might check all the lines going to the amp and make sure that the lines are all balanced. I have seen people try to use unbalanced cables where balanced cables should be used and end up reducing the out put of speakers. Also make sure that no heavy eqing or dynamics have been applied to the sub.

I've run into the Sub-grouped sub over the years and it isn't the best way to do things since you can't control the balance between the sources without changing the balance in the mains.

If you still find yourself looking for a good compact sub then i would take a look at Grundorf Audio's compact subs. They come in a double 12", single 18" and double 18". They are not small but more slender so that they can stand tighter against the wall or be placed under low stages.

crt

[cozment]

Thanks guys for all of the advice. I'm definitely going to be looking at our current equipment possibilities before purchasing anything. I did, however, check over our existing wires, etc and all wires going to the amp from our equipment for the sub is balanced cables. Once the wire leaves the mixer, it goes into a Stereo 2 way/mono 3-way crossover. We're currently only using channel 1 which is the low side to control the subwoofer frequencies and not using channel 2 (mid/high section side). My first question is this; the wire leaving the amplifier is connected by dual banana plugs but turns into a 1/4 mono plug. Does this plug have to be a balanced cord? We bought this wire specifically to hook up the subwoofer so I'd be surprised if this would be incorrect. Second question is about the 3 way cross over I just mentioned. Is this the equipment I need to separate my lows and highs like recommended in the above posts? I have an EQ on my mains already but didn't know if I need to run through this cross over first before sending to the EQ so i'm only sending these higher/mid signals to the mains.

[Tim Padrick]

Speaker cable is 2 conductor, unshielded. So long as what you have is unshielded, it is OK.

Yes, you want to use the crossover you have to take the lows out of the main loudspeakers. Mixer to EQ to crossover to amps. (Bass and kick, etc. do not go through just the sub, they go through the entire system).