Help with speaker installation

[ForHim07]

Hi everyone,
We are a church of about 300 people. For the past 2yrs I have been upgrading the churches soundsystem in multiple ways since I was asked by the board to take over. One of the final aspects is upgrading from JBL speakers that are around 10yrs plus old. Our chapel is an old gymnasium Roughly around 56' X 120'. Inside the cloth covered box that the speakers are sitting on is another speaker. The the setup is 4 main speakers, 2 on left and 2 on right. We have the same speaker on the stage as monitors X4. They all work well but not for what we need. At this point we're trying to figure out a better placement for proper sound quality and a better overall worship service. Oh the speakers thast are on top of the clothed boxes were from the back of the chapel as you can see the boxes on the wall in the back chapel.
Thanks
GGCF soundman

[Frank DeWitt]

Hi For some reason, not many people visit this area. You may want to re post over in the Audio section.
My input is that you have a tough room, I think you need to bring in a pro who can model the room and put your speakers in that model and test them. After that the pro may or may not suggest different speakers.

Frank

[[Admin] osborn4]

I moved it.

No need to double post.

And welcome aboard ForHim!

[cmchamp]

Welcome Aboard!

Can you give us the ceiling height please as well as tell us a bit about your worship style?

I did see your post last week, but way overwhelmed by other work to respond, and when things did settle down this weekend, CMN was down for the count.

C

[ForHim07]

Thanks for the welcome everyone!
The ceiling height is about 18' to 20' . Our worship style is kinda mixed. We currently have 4 to 5 generations in our church allowing me to provide a wide variety of music and sound. Our worship team is mostly brazilian, with a full band base and all. we do many songs from the old rugged cross to new modern sounds. The sound system is also used for presentations, movies and live concerts like many other churches. currently the speakers are JBL EON15P-1, with powered by a 130 watt amplifier w/low-freq 15 inch driver, and a 50 watt amp for the 1.75 high-freq compression driver. The church told me they are about 10yrs old. we don't need to go up very high on the quality but it needs to be worthy not just ok.

[Les]

Here is my shoot from the hip recommendations.

First: I would highly recommend you find a sound company in your area that could come into your space and recommend what equipment you need.

Now, for actual gear recommendations.

My gut reaction would be to put 4 Toa HX5B speakers. Basically 1 per seating section (it looks like you have 4). Those would need to be flown from the ceiling. You shouldn't do this yourself, if anything you should hire this out to a professional. It's a life safety issue and shouldn't be messed with.

Honestly, ever since the HX5 came out I've been very impressed with it. I think the box sounds good with only a few filters, it's lightweight, small, and best of all it has a great price. I can't think of another box that I can get for it's price that's as versatile.

For subs, it really depends on what you're looking for as in how much low end. It's such a large space I would recommend a pair of subs. Some different options that are what I consider budget subs would be EV Tour X 2181, Grund Audio GT315 or GTLPB-36 if you need low profile, JBL MRX528, Peavey QW218, Yorkville UCS1.

Please note those are not the only subs or speakers, those are just what I would have looked at initially.

Now you'll need amps for those as well. For value priced amps I tend to look to a few different amps. The Crown XLS Drivecore series, QSC RMX's, and the Alto MAC series. Pick and amp appropriate to the speakers you choose.

My guess is you do not have a DSP (digital signal processor) either so I would look at getting one of those as well.

And I've barely scratched the surface on considerations and things you need to think about....

Since you guys are obviously not happy with what you have and are needing to do it right then my strong suggestion is to hire a professional. You may think you can't afford it, but then ask yourself, can you afford to do it twice?

Often times when you don't hire the correct professional that's what ends up happening... Just some food for thought.

[cmchamp]

Les - et. al.

Alto Pro Audio has changed hands. This happened at NAMM 2008 or 2009 when The Yorkville Group lost distribution to a new courter.

Alto Pro Audio's Taiwan website can no longer be found.

www.altoproaudio.com points to a company in Ft. Lauderdale, FL which has re-branded, re-named some of Alto's "better" products.

Alto Mac series amplifiers are no longer made, to my knowledge. The APX series amplifiers available are Class D.

With that said, I "had" to find a "disposable" brand, and one of my reps/distributors became the US distributor for Behringer. So, now, instead of Alto Pro Audio as my "disposable" brand, it's Behringer.

C.

[Les]

Thanks Cory, good to know.

I guess it was a couple years since I bought any MAC amps... They were pretty good budget amps. So scratch that suggestion.

I think for the price the Crown Drivecore series would probably be my budget series now...

[Frank DeWitt]

Our church went down a very common road with sound systems. Back in the 60s, a row of 3 columns down each side for voice only. Next a couple of big JBLs down each side, then a 4th and 5th mis matched speaker added further back on each side (What's a delay) Finally a couple of expensive new speakers flown in front, one in the center of each side and smaller speakers 3/4 of the way back flown over the center of the left and right crowd. They were chosen because the sounded great at a show.

I found that they sounded better is half were turned off (Right half, or left half.) I was the new guy but the speakers were less then a year old and were not going to be replaced.

My first year I cleaned up small things I could and sold surplus equipment on Ebay. The second year I HIRED A PROFESSIONAL.

He tested and walked the room, and tested, and walked and tested some more. He went away and studied the speakers. On his recommendation we made brackets to hold the small speakers under the large ones up front. He and I turned the drivers in the large ones 90 deg. He aimed them using test equipment, and EQed the system. We both agree the sound ain't bad.

Bottom line, a Pro got us good sound for a lot less then another round of speakers, If we had hired him before buying those speakers I am sure we would have got GREAT sound for the same money.

Mic stands, mics, Mixer, effects, Amps, recording gear, cables, go for it. Speakers in a HOW, I would hire a pro in a minute.

Frank

[[Admin] osborn4]

This is a classic and still germaine.

Why Churches Buy Three Sound Systems, and How You Can Buy Only One

[cmchamp]

Joel - you beat me to it!

[Les]

Yeah, that's a classic article with a lot of truth in it.

However, I disagree with their consultant only approach. Well, I say disagree but that's not accurate. I disagree with the implication that a consultant only approach is the only approach.

Nothing wrong with the consultant only approach but I think there are other valid options such as a Design/Build outfit.

I happen to fit in the Design/Build outfit most of the time, although I have done some consultant/design only and let others do the install. I don't make money off equipment and I'm not an authorized distributor nor do I pretend to be so that allows me to recommend, design, and install whatever the best equipment is for the job. However, I find that I have some advantages in flexibility of last minute changes and can help the church save money.

Sorry, not to start a debate on this (please) I think there are several valid points for different methods, just wanted to point out that a Design/Build company can be just as good as a Consultant only approach.