Ethics with dealing with Contractors

[Esoteric]

Man, the absolute best (and most ethical) thing to do in this situation is to outline what you want the system in each room to do. What your expectations are, all the necessary details, anything and everything you can think of. Then send out an RFQ to company A, B, and C with a proposed budget, but include a line that you will be taking overall cost into account so although this is your budget, you would actually like to come in as far under budget as possible.

Now I will be as transparent as possible about what will happen next.

Some companies will insist on bidding Christie Projectors. That is to cover them. Christie's are less likely to fail, and so there is less likely to have to be time spent with possible warranty issues. Believe it or not, the higher end the equipment, usually the markup as a percentage of the cost (called the margin) is not nearly as high. Now this can mean that the margin is lower but the profit is higher, or sometimes the profit on these units is about the same as a lower priced unit. But, high end equipment is far more likely to be sell and forget.

Some places are going to assume that lowest price is always going to win the day and try to sell you the lowest price items regardless. These people don't care about having to support the equipment, because they aren't going to. They blaze a trail of destruction and do not care, they are in it solely for the sale at that moment.

Then there are companies like mine. I prefer to install top of the line gear. I believe it is worth it if you can afford it. But I also have value solutions, which are not cheap, but they are good solid equipment that is not my high end gear. I do not sell cheap equipment. It is just not worth it for me because with a smallish staff, I don't have a lot of time to deal with returns of malfunctioning equipment (although you can ask any of my CMN clients, if something doesn't work, I will get you something that works ASAP). And I want my clients to keep coming back and most people will not return if you sell them junk, and repeat business is 50-60% of my business.

Now if you just give me a budget, I will put together the best high end package I am able and come in at or just under budget. But if you let me know that you have that money but you are cost conscious, then I will put together a value solution. Also, something I do is to often provide several possible solutions and let the client choose which one best fits their needs.

If it is a sealed bid, then I do not charge anything for all this work (and it is a lot of work), assuming that the client will look at bids on their own merit and choose one, not playing one of us off the other. On the other hand, if it is not, then I will often ask the client to invest a small amount in getting the design done which they are then free to bid out to the lowest bidder as they so choose.

Now this is to say that people should not be competitive. I have clients in the past who have done leg work and asked why I charge this or that when they can find this price or that, here or there. I appreciate this, because I can then tell them why I am charging what I am, match the price, or tell them that I can not and they should buy it elsewhere. But this is more for people who contact me saying "I want _______". But the key is that the client did the leg work in finding what they wanted.

Think of it this way. About 10-15 hours or more go into a basic bid. It is beyond unfair to then take that to someone and allow them to spend 15 minutes putting together a price list to bid. They already have a 10 hours of labor or more head start in putting together a better price.

[Brad Weber]

I don't know the image size involved but it would not be uncommon with a BrightLink projector to need the top of the image to be 18"-24" below the ceiling, so it is possible that a projector at the 9' ceiling could provide an image at around the same height. There may be other factors involved that favor the BrightLink option but I'm not sure that it is the only option offered that could work.

What you might do is go back to Companies B and C and rather than asking them to bid what Company A bid, ask them to explain to you how their proposed solutions would fulfill your needs and address your general concerns. Who knows, there may be some detail that was not clear to you or they may realize they misunderstood something and come back with an even better solution or some insights into why they did not pursue some of the other options.

On the Christie projector, many of the 'entry level' Christie's are OEM Sanyo models with Christie lenses and sometimes a few tweaks. Even when I have specified both the Sanyo and Christie versions of a projector as acceptable in competitive bid situations I have had some Contractors bid the Christie version and when I asked why they express that they felt the warranty and support they got from Christie offset any cost difference. That is not a knock on Sanyo, it is simply an example of how you can't always assume that a certain brand name means more costly or that it might not be a good value as it comes down to the experiences and preferences of the individual Contractors and the overall cost for the the equipment when combined with the related installation and support costs.

Since you haven't mentioned anything about the Bidders, please consider that the Contractor can have more to do with a successful result than the equipment.

[BPoese]

Brad you are so correct. When we had the sanctuary AV done, a AV designer and installer were from out of town. When they left I had no support. (They never did give me an as-built drawing package.) So the contactors I am looking at now are all local so I can start to develop a relationship with them so if and when I need maintenance/repairs done on any of our equipment I have someone I can trust.

I had one local company install a set speakers in the ceiling for background music in a large room. They installed speakers, amps and a CD player. About a month later the system stopped working. They came right out and found that the power amp for some reason was switched off. (It's still a mystery on how that happened.) And so the guy charged me $400 since there was nothing wrong with what he installed. My thought was that either he should have talked to me over the phone when I called in and asked me those stupid questions a Help desk always ask... "is it turned on?" Or provide me with some trouble shooting training besides here is how you play a CD.

So yes, cost is being considered but I will be calling references and going out to look at the work he has done before we decide on what company to go with.
Thanks
Bruce

[petereit]

To me, the only right thing to do is choose one company to do the install, buy the designs from the other two and provide them to your contractor. It's the price you pay for not really knowing what you wanted ahead of time. They provided you value. You need to compensate them.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, that is odd. I always do over the phone troubleshooting before I go out because I don't want to waste my time or my clients money if at all possible.

Now if I do arrive and it was operator error that we couldn't figure out over the phone, then of course it is a service call.

[grinner]

This is why I just provide a price bid when asked for a proposal. Unless getting paid to consult for them, there is no need to get detailed when bidding. People just need to know a price and if the deadline can be met... unless asked otherwise. Ethical? Sure. Uncool to hork their ideas then not utilize them? You already know the answer to that.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by grinner

This is why I just provide a price bid when asked for a proposal. Unless getting paid to consult for them, there is no need to get detailed when bidding. People just need to know a price and if the deadline can be met... unless asked otherwise. Ethical? Sure. Uncool to hork their ideas then not utilize them? You already know the answer to that.

In fact I find that it almost seems the more someone is insistent on line item breakdowns and pricing, the less likely they are to understand that information or be able to use it effectively.

I look at it quite simply, purchasing/providing equipment and purchasing/providing solutions are not the same thing. If it is equipment being purchased then the focus should be on what equipment is being offered while if it is solutions being purchased then then the focus should be on the solutions being offered.

[grinner]

troof.
When someone wants an imeized list, they are asking for free consultation. If someone wants a price, that's easy enough to give em without handing the gig away.