I've been asked to consult...Help!

[frokey]

Question for you seasoned pros! I'm the Media Director for our mid-size church (1200+) and have been for the past 5 or 6 yrs. I'm a true techie and have acquired alot of knowledge throughout the years, but I've never thought much of it until the last year or so.

I've been wanting to enter into the consulting area and recently, I was asked by another church to consult with them and facilitate the acquisition and installation of some lighting for their sanctuary as an upgrade for their video setup. I feel like this is a door that God is opening and that I should walk through it, but of course, I have some questions. Namely, what and how do I charge? I think I should go with an hourly rate, because I don't know how long this project is going to take. At the same time, I'd love to be able to give them an estimate and possibly even a cap figure that the job would not go over. But this may be shooting myself in the foot.

I just need some guidance here. I want to be fair, but I also don't want to undervalue the service I'm providing. And I want it to be a good experience for both myself and the ministry I'm serving. All comments are welcome!!!

[[Admin] danroth]

A rule of thumb for any type of consulting endeavor is to decide what your annual income would be if you did the job full-time, then divide by a thousand, and charge that per hour.

For example, if you think you would earn $70,000 per year, charge $70 per hour. Don't forget that benefit packages in industry can easily approach $30,000 per year, so if you think your salary would be $70,000 and you would have full benefits, then you would earn $100,000 per year and you should charge $100 per hour.

Of course, you might also want to pray and ask God. I think an inner-city pastor should earn $100,000 per year, but God might not (and my church certainly doesn't)_agree.

That's exciting! I hope this goes well for you!

When I was consulting I charged per day. At my peak I was getting $500 per full day plus expenses -- but I was going out of town to do the consulting. If I were still doing it I would charge $300 per day for a local consult. Here's what I used to do...

I would spend time finding out what the church wanted to accomplish. Then I would take a look at their facility and what it would take to do an installation (keep in mind I was a part-time grunt install worker for a couple of years -- that experience paid off). After that I would prepare a proposal on the type of equipment they needed -- just general specs. At that point I would move into the budget area and see which products would fit their needs and come closest to their available budget. After that I would do some phone consults as needed for a minimal or no fee.

Some tips:

1) Make sure they know that your proposal is not a guarantee. Leave that to the people who sell them the equipment and/or do the install.

2) Never guess at something. If you don't know something just say, "I don't know, but I'll find out."

3) Don't undersell them. If there is a piece of equipment that you know they really need to have but can't afford, stick to your guns and let them know the consequences of going with something less than optimal.

4) Don't undersell yourself . Take into account your experience, your time at the site and the time you will put in off-site preparing paperwork.

If you have my book, read the chapter about purchasing. It will give you some ideas.

That's about all I can think of at the moment. Feel free to PM me if you need help during the process. I've been a consultant and have known many consultants. I've seen all kinds of crazy stuff! Good luck and have fun!

[shayward]

At the same time, I'd love to be able to give them an estimate and possibly even a cap figure that the job would not go over. But this may be shooting myself in the foot.

I think anyone's first couple of rounds of consulting involves shooting one's self in both feet with a machine gun.

Praying and asking God is a good start, and when you start out it can be tricky to charge a lot because you don't have the years of consulting or the 15 case studies and yet if you charge too little it's not worth your time and no one will take you seriously.

I think Dan Roth's calculation is reasonable.

For me, doing software development isn't worth my time unless I'm earning $50/hour. I've priced myself out of jobs that way but trying to compete with an overseas developer at $8/hour isn't worth my while.

And yet I've done a lot of pro-bono work for good causes. So there's a balance, I guess

Remember - if you're good at what you do and you know your stuff cold then if they spend a few hundred dollars on you they might be saving thousands of dollars in mistakes.

But pray and ask God. And some situations may be unique, so always have your ears open.

An option to consider is setting an hourly rate but making it negotiable for larger jobs or poorer churches. Just a thought.

[voyager529]

Originally Posted by shayward

An option to consider is setting an hourly rate but making it negotiable for larger jobs or poorer churches. Just a thought.

Shayward, a thought that sounds right, even admirable, but will backfire VERY fast.

What I have learned as a DJ, and was well stated by one of the guys in my DJ forums, is that there are two prices for your services: full and free. either charge them full price, or do it for free. To do something at a discount off the bat will make that your new price. if you tell them, "my going rate is $70, but I'll charge you $50", it's interpreted, "your going rate is $50". If they recommend you to Sunnyside Assembly of Latter Day Adventists in the next town, they're gonna say, "I know a guy who charges $50 an hour!". When you talk to Father Reverend Beelzebub about your services and say that it will cost them $70, he'll turn around and say, "you did it for your church for $50!". Now you're in a tight spot to either take the lesser amount (and go through this dance again next time around), or turn down the job.

What I will recommend you do is this: the first 2-3 days, charge them the FULL amount. No discounts, no bottom-line reductions. Whatever rate you come up with, take the first 2-3 invoices and charge them 100% of the rate. From here, you have one of two options: the first is to do day #4 absolutely free. say something to the extent of, "I figured i'd cut you guys a break today...I'll get you for it next time =)". The second is to charge full price for day #4, then whatever that amount is, put it in the offering plate on Sunday. Either way, you've proven that you're gonna charge what you're gonna charge, and that you're in a business situation to feed your family and put gas in your car, but that you also have a sense of charity.

Finally, I'll give you the example that i'm living. I learned to do Video from my church. I did many projects for them; it gave me a springboard where I could learn to shoot and edit, and nearly all of my early work came from there. everyone tells me how great my videos are and how much they think i'm so talented, yadda yadda yadda. Last year when they made a trailer for our new building project, they flew in a "professional" production company from Oklahoma to shoot and design this video. When a fellow video team member and I were watching it, we saw several things that could have been done better - better lighting, a bit more saturation, a few tongue darts that merited a second take, things like that. overall it had a pretty good production value, and they did add several CAD flybys that i wouldn't have been able to do. Aside from the CAD sequences, I certainly could have done just as good a job as the company. the video was ten minutes long, and they flew three different people to our church from Oklahoma to shoot on a single Sunday morning. know how much this company got paid for it? $20,000. Over the last five years of video production at my church, know how much I've gotten paid? $0.

Joey

[kbob]

One good tip I got from a friend

There isn't a discount unless it shows on the invoice-meaning if you give a $20/hour discount, then post your charge as $70 per hour, four hour minimum, with a $20 discount for (referral, prepayment, repeat customer, etc)-and mark it as being for a maximum of 4 hours. The details might vary, but the key is you put on the invoice your actual rate.

The referral discount is something you can use to your advantage as well-good on the first job following their next paying referral. Establish minimum job payment as well, either in hours or dollars.

Whatever you do, get the order/agreement in writing before the job is started, signed by whoever is the decision maker. That takes care of misunderstandings before you start.

Lastly-don't worry about it too much. Be professional, but know you'll get better at the business part over time. Enjoy the process.

[Gracetech]

Well i actually have a ministry of which i consult to smaller churches for free(except for traveling expenses). I still do some industry consulting and get a flat fee of $600(i consider this still a good deal) for the project. My consulting of course never ends when i hand in a proposal which is why i have a clause in my contract that states anything over 6 hours on site turns into a second fee unless other wise arranged.

Be sure you know the local and national codes. Don't think you can sell a some one on a idea that violates code. While i have seen plenty of guys/and gals get away with it i have been called in to rectify many of situations in which this has happened. I cannot stress this enough.

Be sure to let the church know that they are in charge of getting any structural analysis if need be. You Can't just go hanging anything anywhere.

Be sure you get the powers to be on the same page before starting your work. I have had musical directors tell me one thing and pastors tell me another. Sit everyone down that is involved i a meeting and discuss what needs to be done and take it from there.

Be sure to enjoy what you are doing. It's is God's gifts that have developed me to who i am and in turn i use my gifts to develop God's ministry. I wish you the best in your endeavor and feel free to contact me as well through PM.

crt

[shayward]

Shayward, a thought that sounds right, even admirable, but will backfire VERY fast.

Yeah, I really see your point on that one. Good call

[frokey]

So much good advice!! That was certainly the kind of information I was looking for. I'll let you guys know how things are going and probably PM a couple of you to follow up on some things. Thank you so much!!

[cmchamp]

I have been doing pro-bono work for about 5 years. My mentor told me I was worth $100/hr plus expenses. I can easily price myself out of my local market at that rate, so I've been charging $50/hr plus expenses for consulting.

[frokey]

I was thinking $50 myself. That's reasonable in my area.

[shayward]

$50/hr is what I am comfortable with doing software development consulting, which is my primary vocation in the same way that Church Media is your primary vocation.

I did 4.5 hours of pro-bono consulting job for a wonderful, small-town growing church with a vibrant ministry on Sunday afternoon and left them with the tools to begin a fledgeling but effective Media Ministry.

They gave me an envelope (which I didn't ask for at all) and it was $75, which was really, really nice of them. That's a little shy of $17 per hour, which was way more than I was asking