Too Much Bass & It's Muddy

[Tbmcgoo]

In our gym/sanctuary we are having a problem with the bass from the bass amp. It is really boomy and it rattles things at times. The amp isn't up very loud either. I would like a nice punchy bass sound to come through the mix. Me (the worship leader) and our sound guy (both not pro's) don't know what to do. He has him totally muted on the board at times and its still to boomy he says. Plus, when I listen back to the cd of the music it sounds very mid rangey and muddy sounding. I really want a better sound that has the bass guitar included in it, Any ideas?

[cmchamp]

Gymnatoria, especially if they are CMU, are notorious for LF issues.
Is the bass guitar amp in close proximity to a wall?
Here are a couple of things to try.
1: Place the amp on an amp stand
2: move it 3-5 feet from the nearest wall

After that, you're looking at proper acoustical treatments to reduce the effects of mode/node relationships (standing waves) in the room.
C.

[FlamHappy]

Bass Traps Bass Traps Bass Traps

DIY or otherwise.

[cmchamp]

And, yes, those proper acoustic treatments would be bass traps for the majority, but possibly a combination of bass trap, diffusion and absorption depending on what's installed already, the configuration of the speaker system, etc.
C.

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by FlamHappy

Bass Traps Bass Traps Bass Traps

DIY or otherwise.

This is probably a larger space, not a studio or a small room, so bass traps may not be the most effective, or even appropriate, solution. As Cory suggested, you have to look at the overall situation and determine what is most appropriate for the specific application rather than just blindly applying any particular approach. It seems premature to suggest any solution until knowing more about the situation such as the room dimensions and shape, the existing finishes, the sound system and so on.

[cmchamp]

Bass trap is a generic term used for a multitude of acoustical treatments that absorb or reduce LF energy. What the majority of us think of as "bass traps" are what are frequently used in home studios, home theatre, studio control rooms, etc.
In larger spaces, such as gymnatoria, auditoria, sanctuaries etc., control of low frequency energy is a much different beast, and one really needs an understanding of applied acoustical physics to provide proper solutions.
These solutions should only be evidence based, meaning that on-site data is collected in both physical measurement and audio measurement form.
There can be DIY solutions, however, they need to be designed by a qualified acoustician and because it's a public building, whatever the solution must comply with local building code requirements.

[Tbmcgoo]

Yeah, the room is roughly 75' in length by 30 to 35' in width and 20 to 25' high.

[Tbmcgoo]

What does LF mean?

[prochlea]

LF = Low Frequency

[Brad Weber]

Part of what I meant by it is not a studio is that one has to consider not just the listening environment but also the live sound aspect, things like having multiple open microphones in the same room as the playback system.

Originally Posted by Tbmcgoo

He has him totally muted on the board at times and its still to boomy he says.

Just because the channel is muted does not mean it is not getting into the system as there are likely multiple other mics on stage that are open and that may be picking up the bass rig. If not already done, a simple thing like engaging the high pass filter for the mics that don't need low to reproduce low frequencies (vocals, cymbals, etc.) may help clean up the sound. There's also the perhaps overly obvious factor that if there is too much bass with it muted in the mix then maybe it needs to be turned down on stage.

Originally Posted by Tbmcgoo

Plus, when I listen back to the cd of the music it sounds very mid rangey and muddy sounding.

What are the speakers and what processing do you have? A poorly tuned system or mains run full range in conjunction with subwoofers could be contributing factors to "boominess" and "muddiness".


So it could be a combination of the stage setup, the audio system and the acoustical environment. However, some of the stage setup and audio system aspects may be easier, and free, to try to address first.


Cory, can you explain suggestion to locate the bass amp 3' to 5' from the wall? That range seems to result in boundary cancellation from about 56.5Hz to 94Hz and I would think that either moving it within a foot or so of or a minimum of 7' to 8' away from any nearby boundary would be recommended.

[Tbmcgoo]

The Speakers are Peavey 15s with Black Widow Speakers in them. 5 of them. Not sure what you mean when you say processing?

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by Tbmcgoo

The Speakers are Peavey 15s with Black Widow Speakers in them. 5 of them. Not sure what you mean when you say processing?

I was referencing speaker system signal processing such as equalizers, crossovers, delays and so forth or DSPs (Digital Signal Processors).

If the room is 30'-35' wide and 75' long, where are the stage and the five speakers located? Are the speakers sitting on the ground, on stands or flown overhead?