Ballpark

[poolvibe]

I have been lurking here for a bit and really appreciate everyone's contribution. This is a nice resource.

I belong to yet another church with no budget for room correction so I will be forced to out of pocket anything I do to improve the situation. I have a sketchup model of the sanctuary and understand the general principals of absorption at the stage and diffusion near the back of the room. I was hoping someone would help me make "some" improvement". Right now there is roughly a 3.5 sec reverberation. The room is also heavy from 50hz up through 125. the 31 band looks like a bowl there to get the room flat. It sounds good but not great. I want to improve the acoustics so less experiences mixers have a larger margin of error if that makes sense. I can make it sound good but not everyone can.

My idea:

50 - 2'x4'x2" Mineral wool panels. 40% rear wall and 60% stage. If there are any acoustical experts willing to look at the model I would be willing to pay but can't afford much..

Site wont let me post pics or model because I am new... Happy to email etc..

Thx everyone....

Frankster

[Brad Weber]

Originally Posted by poolvibe

I have a sketchup model of the sanctuary and understand the general principals of absorption at the stage and diffusion near the back of the room.

That all depends on what is desired, a church with a choir up front may want diffusion there and more absorption at the back. A church where congregational participation is important may want a different acoustical environment than one that is more the congregation being presented to. And so on. It also depends on what you have for existing finishes, the size and shape of the room, etc.

Originally Posted by poolvibe

Right now there is roughly a 3.5 sec reverberation.

How was that determined? Is it a measured value at a specific frequency or a general guesstimate? Is reverb time the only acoustical issue or are there other problems such as flutter echo, specular reflections and so on? It makes sense to try to address as many problems as possible with whatever you do.

Originally Posted by poolvibe

The room is also heavy from 50hz up through 125. the 31 band looks like a bowl there to get the room flat. It sounds good but not great.

Is that all the room or also a factor of the audio system? And that is another potential factor, the audio system can certainly affect what might be recommended on regards to acoustical treatments.

Originally Posted by poolvibe

I want to improve the acoustics so less experiences mixers have a larger margin of error if that makes sense. I can make it sound good but not everyone can.

Does that indicate some gain before feedback issues or other similar issues?


I know this probably doesn't really help you but it is improtant to identify the problems and the goals before getting into what is appropriate to reconcsile them.

[poolvibe]

Brad

YOU ARE AWESOME! This is what I need! Help me narrow my thoughts..

1. We are contemporary. Always a drum kit (have a shield). If you cant "feel" the bass it isn't loud enough.

2. 3.5 total guesstimate with a clipboard SMACK. No flutter to my ear. Just really live. All drywall walls 70/30 carpet/concrete(painted). 56 long 39 wide 30 high (open beam with regular industrial insulation wayyyy up top.

3. I just use a spectrum analyzer and pink noise to get it close to flat. I like the curve to be a tad tubby, think of a flat line falling to the left just a tad. Thin is not my gig

4. If the room was lets say "more dry(tame)" I think a less experienced mixer would have less to compensate for. I have mixed large venues as well as small. When I hear something I can react from second nature and experience. Some of the others cannot here. I want to eliminate some of the "Biggies" with the room so there is a greater opportunity for success.

Frankster

[poolvibe]

Let me clarify the 70/30 applies to the floor...
F

[cmchamp]

I'll try to run some models of my own when I get home and after the boys are down for the night.

[poolvibe]

I have this in sketchup if that helps. shows stage, soffits etc..

F

[cmchamp]

I'll work on some brain work while my 2 yr old sits in my lap. First of all, the mineral wool will do a good job of absorbing easily audible frequencies but do little if anything for the apparent LF correction needed.
As mentioned in other discussions, when applying acoustical treatments to a space, it's necessary to look at the whole picture. Just application of soft stuff will expose and amplify other issues. If your room is rectangluar in shape, and the walls are flat gypsum board, there must be early reflections and flutter echoes that may be close enough that you may not hear them separately. Without hearing a ballon pop recording to confirm, I would venture a guess that the room couldn't be classified as diffuse to begin with, thus not reverberant by appropriate definition. Your guestimation of 3.5 would be a decay time not an RT time.

[poolvibe]

I am getting a lesson in proper terminology as well.. Okay so its 3.5 secconds from when I "snap that board" to when I hear nothing.. Decay time it is. So early reflections would be combated best by absorption at stage... Correct?

F

[cmchamp]

If you want a completely dead space in which you have the ability to affect the perceived characteristics of the room with added reverb through the sound system, then proper absorption in many locations is necessary.
IF there is speaking at all from the congregation that needs to be clearly heard and understood by all, than there will need to be a combination of diffusion and absorption.
Completely dry rooms are uncomfortable, and lack intimacy.
Overly undiffuse rooms (think modern day non-liturgical skeet-rock church) are difficult to correct inexpensively.
Once you get to your 15 posts or so, attach a pict.
I've designed some acoustical products for local congregations. One is in the DIY mode and has taken several years to finish their barrel absorbers.
C.

[poolvibe]

Sounds great.... 7 post to go...

F

[tpichler]

Originally Posted by cmchamp

I've designed some acoustical products for local congregations. One is in the DIY mode and has taken several years to finish their barrel absorbers.

Any designs you are willing to share? I've got a kids room that is all brick and I'm trying to think of a way to calm it down.

[cmchamp]

If you've read my posts, I share a lot.
Start a new thread and I'm sure others will share their ideas as well.