Too much bass

[rschultz]

Hi,

We have a 50'x50' room, band in the corner, AV desk in opposite corner (diagonal chairs). The ceiling is 14' at the band corner, 10' at the AV desk. 400 W ISP mains + mono Yorkville LS700P sub. Chairs/floor is carpeted. Window curtains, but no other acoustical treatments.

There have been multiple people whose opinion I trust that say the bass guitar has been "overpowering" at times. I've been running 85 dB max (slow A weighting) at the AV desk during the service. I have the bass and kick drum compressed (5:1 or more), I really think the bass is under control from where I stand in the AV desk (8' from corner). I've walked around during practice (empty chairs) and don't really notice a difference in bass response in the middle of the room. But adding people... would that absorb all frequencies or just some frequencies?

From an acoustics standpoint (I know little about this), is it possible that lower frequencies don't reverberate as much in the back corner as they do in the middle of the room? Only a mono sub, so superposition seems less likely than with 2 subs.

Could this be an main EQ issue? I'm running basically flat with a HPF set at roughly 35 Hz, a little boost at 2k. I've noticed that I typically take out some in the 200-400 Hz on most every channel, so possibly could do that from the main EQ... not sure.

Most everyone I talk to is very pleased with the sound... except this one thing. The easy solution is just to pull back on the bass some, but it's like flying blind when the AV desk hears something different than what is in the middle portion.

Thanks.
Ryan

[Brad Weber]

You may have already addressed these, but where is the sub located and is the bass run only through the house sub or do they also have an amp on stage? It could be as simple as you being further away from the sub and/or bass rig. What are you doing for a crossover and how is that set?

You could have room modes or other room acoustics issues involved but you should be able to hear most of those effects pretty easily as you walk the room.

If you can relate the problem to specific locations and/or specific frequencies, that might help narrow down the potential causes.

[bpalermini]

Could be you, just like me, likes more bass.

[rschultz]

Yes, I play bass, so maybe I like more of it

The sub is powered, just like the speakers. The mixer goes stereo to the sub, which has stereo line thru's that go to the speakers... so no crossovers on the speakers. But the sub has an adjustable LPF that is currently set as low as it can: 100 Hz. This is just a temporary solution since my driverack 260 is in the shop, should get it back soon.

Oh, maybe that is it... since the mains don't have a crossover, the sub AND mains are BOTH putting out between 50-100 Hz.

[rschultz]

I've read about Aux-Fed Subs and understand the pros/cons. Our GL2400 has the ability to send Aux6 to the Mono fader. But simpler than that, would there be any reason not to simply send the Mono fader straight to the sub? The sub would then get all frequencies, but it's internal LFP (set to ~100 Hz) would take care of that. By separating the sub from the LR faders, I can then use the HPF (set to ~100 Hz) on the graphic EQ for the main LR speakers. Slightly more cumbersome to have 3 faders instead of 2, but I think it should work until I get more control with the driverack 260.

[cmchamp]

Yup, you figured out your temporary solution.
C.

[zactommo]

I think what your dealing with here is a personal preference. I like to have good punchy bass in my mix, but I don't when i'm mixing a sunday morning, because I know it makes some of the more senior people a bit uncomfortable sometimes. I think when they say "the bass is overpowering" they are probably not meaning, its dominating the mix, and they can't hear the other elements. Its most likely more a case of, I dont like the fact that I can feel the sound etc...

From my experience, when people in a church complain about the sound, you need to dig a bit deeper to find out what the real problem is. The classic example is, "The sound is too loud." Usually volume is never the problem, is usually a result of a poor mix, which makes people feel uncomfortable, and they dont know how to express it, so they just say "It's too loud."

[rschultz]

zactommo,

I appreciate your thoughts. Yes you are right, audio is very subjective. But I have dug a little deeper, this is more than the over 60 crowd complaining about the bass. These are people my age (35-40) with some musical experience telling me the bass is "overpowering" and hindering their worship. And besides, when one of them is an elder... I have to listen
Thanks for the input.

Ryan

[Mark Finley]

describe for me what kind of monitor system the bass player uses. size, distance, ect...

[twj]

I know that this is usually frowned against but have you tried taking the bass out of the mains. We have some bass players that insist on running their stage amp so loud you can't lower the volume enough. Even with the bass completly out of the mains we can still get complaints just from the stage amp while the bass player says he can barely hear it.

[rschultz]

Bass and drums are in IEM's - Rolls PM351. Bassist can control the volume of his bass, voice and aux mix from board. There are 2 stage monitors: 1 for BGV's, 1 for Lead. The bottom is EQ'd out up to maybe 100-150 Hz on both.

[cmchamp]

If I remember correctly, the bass guitar is DI'd direct to the sound board. I don't think Ryan is using a bass guitar amp on stage.
LF build up is two fold in his room in my opinion.
1: in appropriate frequency control of speakers and overlap between his sub and mains due to the lack of appropriate crossover (his is in the shop).
2: relatively small room with an acute angle at a ceiling/wall joining can augment the LF energy in a room.
Ryan, utilize the mono out to feed the sub and the HPF on the EQ355 for the time being for the mains and that should get you buy until your DriveRack is repaired.
C.