Hi,

We have been using a 16 channel Mackie for a long time in a temporary location... loading/unloading/setup/teardown every week. Nothing wrong with it except we want another board as we move into a permanent location. Should go with 24 channels for future mic'ing of drums.
Not too many people say much of anything about Mackie. The Onyx 24.4 looks good to me. Most on this site recommend the A&H. The A&H ZED 428 is the same price ($1700) as Mackie 24.4, the GL2400-24 is $2000. The Yamaha MG24/14FX is significantly cheaper at $900.
I'm open to any of these. What are pros/cons of these? We really don't record anything except the sermon... firewire/usb out isn't really necessary, although it might be convenient.

Thanks.
Ryan
North Aurora, IL

I'd go to either A&H console. I'm a GL series (and ML series) fan myself; I haven't used the Zed series, but guys I respect recommend it, for whatever that's worth.

I've never been a super fan of Mackie, and Yam's MG series is their answer to Mackie/Behringer.

You might see if you can find a good deal on a GL2200-32. The 2200 is discontinued a few years, but it's virtually the same as the 2400 (swap the 2400's matrix for stereo returns, I believe), and you can probably find a 32-channel 2200 for about the same as (or perhaps less than) you'd pay for a new 24-channel 2400.

We did pretty much what you're looking at -- we were a portachurch with a 1604; after we moved into a real place, we found a good local deal on a GL2200-32 (half the price of a GL2400-32) and we picked it up, doubling the channel count, going from a full-plus-one 1604 to plenty of room on the GL. Now, the GL is pretty full. It's never been full full, but having 32 channels instead of 24 has made life easier.

Welcome Ryan.
Asking for recommendations on gear is like asking the population what their favorite food is. We'll all have an opinion.
So, personally, here's my list in no particular order.
Allen & Heath GL2400 - 2800 series or better.
Soundcraft GB4 or better
Yamaha PM5000
Mackie Onyx 80 series preferable.
Phonic Sonic Station
Peavey Sanctuary Series
Crest Audio HP and HPW series

I personally haven't voiced a positive opinion regarding Mackie since I stopped being a dealer 2.5 years ago. Too many issues came to the fore where I didn't feel comfortable with the dependability, reliability and ability of Mackie to provide service in a timely manner for my clients. I understand recently, some drastic changes have been made at Loud Technologies (parent company of Mackie, EAW, Crate, etc.) and they are getting their act together better now.

Before looking at prices, ask yourself the following:
1: How long will it be in use - the average life span of good quality capacitors in analog gear is 8-10 years.
2: What do you envision as your future growth in the music/media department? Dramas, plays, musicals, larger instrumentation, etc.?
3: What features are you looking for? #EQ controls, Sweepable Mids, #Swept Mids, HPF's, individual phantom, group phantom, global phantom, aux sends, aux returns, busses/groups etc. etc.

Lots to think about.
C.

__________________
Cory Champion
Technical Director
Cambria Baptist Church

I would recommend the gl2400-32 channel - we moved up from a 16ch board to the GL2400-32 and are once again running out of channels... once you start mic'ing drums, it's easy to get out of hand... at least it is for us because we have a drummer with a masters in percussion who likes to change stuff around - and a worship leader who likes big groups. One week - including the aux percussion, we had 14 channels of percussion.

in addition to the positive stuff you've probably already seen about the A&H boards - I know this about the GL series and it may transfer over to the ZED, but I'm not sure... The GL series has individual cards per channel that can be removed and repaired without losing the whole board.

If you give us a little more detail on what you're looking for, we can be more specific to your situation.

__________________
Pat Rochleau
Evanston Bible Fellowship

And, don't forget about recommended dynamics for individual drum mics. Though not required, does make things fit together much better.
Depending on your dynamics processing needs, gates, compressors, limiters, you might as well look at digital consoles as well.

__________________
Cory Champion
Technical Director
Cambria Baptist Church

I've used the Zed 428 and do think it's an excellent board. But I would agree with the others that you might as well go up to GL 2400 - 32 channel since you are spending the money. You never know how much you will be expanding in the next couple years.

Right now the max channels we have ever used would be 8 mics, 3 guitars, bass, synth, piano = 14. Add 5-6 for drums and we could be at 20. I guess I can see how 24 could be limiting... but this is an extreme case. Normally we average maybe 10 channels (no drums).
As for dramas/plays/etc, I guess this is possible, but nothing we have done in the past. A permanent location may change this though.

Some of this is above my head... and therein lies the problem. We really don't have much knowledge in our church in this area. I have been involved more with the music in the past, only recently am becoming involved with the sound/video controls. I am an engineer by day, so I will be able to pick up some of this in time. But I don't ever forsee it getting overly complicated.
I understand the need for EQ and compression, but some of that other stuff is greek to me. The DBX DriveRack PX looks to be a good all-in-one solution for a reasonable price... but I'm not convinced I need that yet. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.
Ryan

The DBX DriveRack series are speaker control and processing only. In general, I think all we all agree to not place compression on the main speakers, but rather limiting the signal before the amplifiers so that the amps don't go into clipping and destroy the speakers.
Individual channel gates, especially on the drums, allows for the ability to have more control over what audio information is passed on to the channel strip for reinforcement.
Individual compression provides the ability to keep the peak volume on those channels within pre-described ranges so that they don't damage anything, and it's easier to blend and mix, especially if you have an inexperienced drummer.
C.

__________________
Cory Champion
Technical Director
Cambria Baptist Church

Our speakers are powered, so it is unclear to me if I need amplification.
Also, does the A&H 2400 have compression, channel gates, etc. that you speak of? If not, is that a necessary purchase, or will the board by itself be enough?

Thanks.
Ryan

If you have powered speakers - you won't need amplification.

I think you've gotten a little confused with the compression and channel gates - The compression that cory brought up is for individual channels. It can be very useful to get a tighter sounding mix, but you can get by without it. The A&H GL2400 doesn't have compression or anything attached to it. You can get by without it - many places do, but it's a good addition when you're looking to upgrade...

The driverack that you brought up is to be between your board and the speakers. This provides you with a level of tuning that you need and really can't get by without.


It sounds like right now you have a small board connected directly to powered speakers. You may be getting by with that all right in a temporary situation, but in a permanent install situation you'd really get alot of value out of a speaker management system like the driverack. It gives you the ability to EQ the system to protect against feedback and compensate for acoustical problems in the room. It will also give you some limiting to protect the speakers. The driverack PX you mentioned would probably be a good fit for you. My personal choice for you situation would be the driverack 260 - it seems like the PX is very similar to the PA, but more optimized for powered speakers. I've used the PA alot and don't really care much for it - it has an auto-EQ function that I don't think works very well. The 260 is much more customizable, but requires a little more knowledge to use. If you could swing the cash to hire someone to tune it, the 260 would be the way to go. If not, the PX could probably get you close enough until you learned to tweak it yourself.

__________________
Pat Rochleau
Evanston Bible Fellowship

And from reading his posts again, sounds like he's moving from one temporary location to another temporary location, so he'll need a good sturdy road worthy board with a road case.

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Cory Champion
Technical Director
Cambria Baptist Church

It's really good at making a good PA sound like crap, from my experience. But it's reasonable for tuning by ear.